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Topic: In other news ...

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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5138 on: April 22, 2021, 03:47:51 PM »
it's possible for some

not for me
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5139 on: April 22, 2021, 03:53:21 PM »
Is it possible to count into a six deck shoe?
I don't know all the intricacies but the short answer is yes.

The somewhat longer answer is that, as @longhorn320 said:
card counting does not require one to be rainman
Non-Rainman humans don't actually remember each card because there are 312 cards in six decks and non-Rainman humans cannot remember that many. 

The basic premise instead is to keep a count of how far above or below the average value the exposed cards have been. The cards' values are (ignoring that aces can also be 11 because that is irrelevant for purpose of busting out):
  • 10 for each king
  • 10 for each queen
  • 10 for each jack
  • 10 for each 10
  • 9 for each 9
  • 8 for each 8
  • 7 for each 7
  • 6 for each 6
  • 5 for each 5
  • 4 for each 4
  • 3 for each 3
  • 2 for each 2
  • 1 for each ace
A seven is the middle card. Roughly 46.15% are <7, 46.15 are >7, and 7.70% are 7's. Thus, if you have 14 or less you should have only a 46.15% chance of busting by taking a card. However, if you have 15 or more then you have at least a 53.85% chance of busting by taking a card.

IIRC, the fundamental basis of counting for non-Rainman is to start at zero and subtract one for each card under 7 and add one for each card over seven. When you get deep in the shoot you can use this knowledge to alter your bets based on knowing that there are either more large or more small cards left than usual.


longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5140 on: April 22, 2021, 03:53:35 PM »
Is it possible to count into a six deck shoe?


very possible
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5141 on: April 22, 2021, 04:01:57 PM »
I don't know all the intricacies but the short answer is yes.

The somewhat longer answer is that, as @longhorn320 said:Non-Rainman humans don't actually remember each card because there are 312 cards in six decks and non-Rainman humans cannot remember that many. 

The basic premise instead is to keep a count of how far above or below the average value the exposed cards have been. The cards' values are (ignoring that aces can also be 11 because that is irrelevant for purpose of busting out):
  • 10 for each king
  • 10 for each queen
  • 10 for each jack
  • 10 for each 10
  • 9 for each 9
  • 8 for each 8
  • 7 for each 7
  • 6 for each 6
  • 5 for each 5
  • 4 for each 4
  • 3 for each 3
  • 2 for each 2
  • 1 for each ace
A seven is the middle card. Roughly 46.15% are <7, 46.15 are >7, and 7.70% are 7's. Thus, if you have 14 or less you should have only a 46.15% chance of busting by taking a card. However, if you have 15 or more then you have at least a 53.85% chance of busting by taking a card.

IIRC, the fundamental basis of counting for non-Rainman is to start at zero and subtract one for each card under 7 and add one for each card over seven. When you get deep in the shoot you can use this knowledge to alter your bets based on knowing that there are either more large or more small cards left than usual.


actually its the opposite

cards delt under 7 is a plus 1

cards delt over 9 is a negative 1

so if your current count is for example plus 3 then 3 more low cards have been dealt then 10s and Aces

when the deck is rich in tens its favors the player and the bet should be more

with multi deck shoes you have to divide the count by the estimated decks remaining undealt

so if your actual count is plus 4 and there are 2 decks undealt then the true count is actually 2




They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5142 on: April 22, 2021, 04:04:15 PM »
A while back, I was sitting at a bar in LV and a guy sat next to me in a suit.  He SAID he was a pit boss, and he didn't pay for his drink.  I think it was at Caesar's, he had just gotten off, we got to chatting and it came up.  I asked him about card counting and he told me it was something they didn't worry about, at all, because of the six deck shoe.  He claimed it was "Hollywood" (this was before Rainman came out).  

He said they really watching for folks changing cards, the dealers, stealing chips, simple stuff he said, that folks think they can get away with.  Of course he may have been BSing me, I was young at the time.

Counting cards is legal, but ... (freep.com)

4 Reasons Why Counting Cards is a Waste of Time (kiowacasino.com)

I kinda figure folks would get wealthy over time if it really worked and was a threat to casinos, and they wouldn't  build these humongous places in LV.  I gather it is more like work, as the article states, and you probably can make more money working.


longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5143 on: April 22, 2021, 04:04:34 PM »
there all kinds of bet size management out there

the goal is bet more when the deck turns positive but dont up your bet too high else its a tell that your a counter
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5144 on: April 22, 2021, 04:09:42 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if they don't worry much about card counters.  There are so many other people that the house is making a ton of money on, card-counters are likely a miniscule threat.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5145 on: April 22, 2021, 04:11:07 PM »
Can you still make money counting cards in a casino? | by Rik Worth | Medium

Former Chairman of the International Association of Casino Security and Crown Prosecution expert witness David Mills says: “In terms of a serious risk to game integrity, card counting is marginal at best by comparison to the other scams and techniques. On the plus side, it is also one of the very few ‘skills’ that can be legitimately deployed within the casino environment and thus has an enduring appeal and added interest for many players.”
Quote
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)]There has been far more lost by would-be card counters than they have ever won.[/color]
Casinos can still make money from people practising counting and love counters who think they’re much better than they actually are. On top of which small stakes and a lack of counters mean that a lot of casinos don’t care about counting unless actual cheating is taking place. David adds: “Even in the States, there has been far more lost by would-be card counters than they have ever won! In fact, even the grandfather of card counting, Prof Edwin Thorpe, wonders why it is still treated as such a big issue in casinos.”



longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5146 on: April 22, 2021, 04:11:41 PM »
A while back, I was sitting at a bar in LV and a guy sat next to me in a suit.  He SAID he was a pit boss, and he didn't pay for his drink.  I think it was at Caesar's, he had just gotten off, we got to chatting and it came up.  I asked him about card counting and he told me it was something they didn't worry about, at all, because of the six deck shoe.  He claimed it was "Hollywood" (this was before Rainman came out). 

He said they really watching for folks changing cards, the dealers, stealing chips, simple stuff he said, that folks think they can get away with.  Of course he may have been BSing me, I was young at the time.

Counting cards is legal, but ... (freep.com)

4 Reasons Why Counting Cards is a Waste of Time (kiowacasino.com)

I kinda figure folks would get wealthy over time if it really worked and was a threat to casinos, and they wouldn't  build these humongous places in LV.  I gather it is more like work, as the article states, and you probably can make more money working.


the advantage a card counter can get is between 1 and 2 % so to benefit you need to count flawlessly and have at least 100 bets with the deck positive

if you are betting $25 chips averaging $50 dollars a hand you should be able to win between $100 and $200 an hour

again while all this is going on you have to keep your betting spread down 1 to 4 max and it doesnt hurt to be talking and joking around with the other players and or dealer
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5147 on: April 22, 2021, 04:12:38 PM »
David, who now works as a software engineer for Google says: “People stop playing because they lose interest, at least in my case — or when they get something more stable, or when they’re tired of grinding out a boring lifestyle. Counting really isn’t that fun. Counting is pretty much like operating as a robot, making bets according to math, and playing according to math. The swings are also something people don’t really like. One day there can be a positive swing and you go up $500 at a $5 table in an hour, and the next day you’re down that much in a mere hour and a half.”

In gambling slang “the grind” is how much cash a casino whittles away, however slowly, at players. For most normal people, the grind is the day in, day out chore of working hard, and though card counting might allow you to chip away slowly at the casino, and prove that perhaps the house doesn’t always win, like any full time job there’s really no avoiding the grind.


longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5148 on: April 22, 2021, 04:14:14 PM »
Can you still make money counting cards in a casino? | by Rik Worth | Medium

Former Chairman of the International Association of Casino Security and Crown Prosecution expert witness David Mills says: “In terms of a serious risk to game integrity, card counting is marginal at best by comparison to the other scams and techniques. On the plus side, it is also one of the very few ‘skills’ that can be legitimately deployed within the casino environment and thus has an enduring appeal and added interest for many players.”Casinos can still make money from people practising counting and love counters who think they’re much better than they actually are. On top of which small stakes and a lack of counters mean that a lot of casinos don’t care about counting unless actual cheating is taking place. David adds: “Even in the States, there has been far more lost by would-be card counters than they have ever won! In fact, even the grandfather of card counting, Prof Edwin Thorpe, wonders why it is still treated as such a big issue in casinos.”



I agree with this 100%

If youre going to be a card counter you better know what youre doing meaning knowing the right card playing strategy and counting flawlessly
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5149 on: April 22, 2021, 04:24:02 PM »
probably a lot like golf

better to be lucky than good
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Riffraft

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5150 on: April 22, 2021, 05:28:39 PM »
Yup.
One teacher at my school sends out numerous, obnoxious emails about gathering money together to buy powerball tickets.  Most people put $5 in, including the principal.

I abstain.
I do it with my company to insure that they don't win.  If I didn't play, they would win and I would leave to pick up the pieces when they all quit

Riffraft

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #5151 on: April 22, 2021, 05:42:20 PM »
Even if you lawyer up and win you lose unless they could be forced to cover your attorney fees.Like when the IRS fined me $600.00 for a 35 dollar share I didn't know I had - that is now wrth 17.00.But AIG gets bailed out and Cyber Security firms walk away with 1.8 billion on systems that failed.They get the gold mine and we get the shaft :character0029:
Must have not done anything about it. I have never in my career ever had a first time mistake by a client get stuck paying a penalty. More often than not I get it cancelled but always reduced. Now the interest on what is owed is another story.

 

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