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Topic: In other news ...

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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4872 on: April 16, 2021, 02:59:30 PM »
If I'd been a naval aviator, I'd want an F6F.

The Germans built some capable fights also, the FW-190D comes to mind.  The Me-262 was ultra fast but limited in range.  Many shot down were coming in for a landing, and many crashed on landing.  The Soviet Yak-9 was credible.  The Brit Spitfire was very maneuverable and lasted the entire war in various marks.

Early in the war, I probably would have chosen the Zero Sen, long range, good firepower, and very nimble, but no armor or self sealing tanks.


the yak wasnt fast and had less then great fire power but they were very rugged and designed to land on very bad run ways as the soviets didnt really have quality places to land and take off

no thanks on the zero
it would be like flying a maneuverable match box

nothing wrong with the FW-190D fast with good armament 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4873 on: April 16, 2021, 03:34:23 PM »
The Marines often flew off island bases.  The P51 used an Allison built (under license) version of the famous Merlin V-12 engine.  
Packard built the American Merlin. Allison built the original P51 engine which was very good at low altitudes but could not compete with contemporary German and British fighters at high altitudes due to insufficient supercharging, thus the switch to the Rolls Royce designed Merlin.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4874 on: April 16, 2021, 03:45:50 PM »
no thanks on the zero
it would be like flying a maneuverable match box
Agreed.

One of the tragedies of war is that for some reason Chennault's Flying Tigers' experiences fighting against the Zero while flying for the Chinese prior to Pearl Harbor were either not reported back to the US or were not taken seriously.

Due to this failure American pilots had to learn how to defeat the Zero from scratch. Unfortunately, an untold number of American pilots paid for these lessons with their lives when they got into hopeless low speed turning contests with the more nimble Zeros.

Eventually American pilots learned to NEVER try to out maneuver a Zero as doing so was almost always fatal and instead to maintain high airspeed and blast away at the flimsy Zeros during high speed passes. They also learned that while the lightweight Zeros could climb very well, their dive speed was limited by their lightweight construction so, as long as you had altitude to burn, you could always escape a Zero by going into a full power dive.

Countless American lives would have been saved if the early war American pilots had learned these lessons in training based on Chennault's experiences rather than having to learn them in live warfare.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4875 on: April 16, 2021, 03:49:43 PM »
Packard built the American Merlin. Allison built the original P51 engine which was very good at low altitudes but could not compete with contemporary German and British fighters at high altitudes due to insufficient supercharging, thus the switch to the Rolls Royce designed Merlin.
Yeah, thanks for the correction.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4876 on: April 16, 2021, 03:55:24 PM »
There was the Thatch Weave developed to fight the Zero using the F4Fs that was pretty successful, but early in the war, Japanese pilots had superb training and often combat experience.  They would have beaten our fliers if they switched planes.  But early in the war, the Zero was a very capable long range fighter in good hands.  

You had naval aviators flying F4Fs (mostly) who would not have known about the Flying Tigers at the time.  The branches didn't play well together.

Very few fighters available in 1939 were still in use in 1945 in front line service, with more developed marks.  I'm trying to think:

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109

The P-38 and P-40 were still in use, I think, but relegated to other than front line work, I think.  Anything else?  

I'm impressed how many pilots we trained to fly advanced aircraft.  I never got past a Cessna 172.

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4877 on: April 16, 2021, 03:57:36 PM »
The P51 used an Allison built (under license) version of the famous Merlin V-12 engine.  That and it's wing design gave it long range (and drop tanks).  The P47 was an interesting fighter as well, enormous, and the P38 is a favorite of mine also, very unusual layout.
The P51 used a Packard built Merlin made stateside and was improved by the the Bendix Carb which performed close to the Fuel Injection the German ME 109s had

The Brit Spitfire was very maneuverable and lasted the entire war in various marks.
The later models(Spit) were quite a bit faster than the Mustang that was actually quite a bit bigger - it could hold a lot more fuel.The Spit was a better in tight fighter.The Mustang for the long hauls that escorted and protected the B-17s/B-24s/Lancasters for the raids over the Reich.As Air Marshall Hermann Goering supposedly said "When I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up" aware of the strategic consequences of this.
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MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4878 on: April 16, 2021, 04:00:04 PM »
There was the Thatch Weave developed to fight the Zero using the F4Fs that was pretty successful, but early in the war, Japanese pilots had superb training and often combat experience.  They would have beaten our fliers if they switched planes.  But early in the war, the Zero was a very capable long range fighter in good hands. 
A brilliant counter stroke considering the state of affairs at that time
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MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4879 on: April 16, 2021, 04:04:03 PM »
Very few fighters available in 1939 were still in use in 1945 in front line service, with more developed marks.  I'm trying to think:

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109
Focke Wulf fw 190
Edit - it wasn't introduced until '42,P-51 did not enter production until '41
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longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4880 on: April 16, 2021, 04:05:02 PM »
Packard built the American Merlin. Allison built the original P51 engine which was very good at low altitudes but could not compete with contemporary German and British fighters at high altitudes due to insufficient supercharging, thus the switch to the Rolls Royce designed Merlin.
which I think was the advent of the P-51 D version

they could now compete effectively against the German fighters as they could operate at 15,000 ft altitudes while maintaining their range

When the D version arrived on the scene The Germans just had no answer for it

They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4881 on: April 16, 2021, 04:08:04 PM »
There was the Thatch Weave developed to fight the Zero using the F4Fs that was pretty successful, but early in the war, Japanese pilots had superb training and often combat experience.  They would have beaten our fliers if they switched planes.  But early in the war, the Zero was a very capable long range fighter in good hands. 

You had naval aviators flying F4Fs (mostly) who would not have known about the Flying Tigers at the time.  The branches didn't play well together.

Very few fighters available in 1939 were still in use in 1945 in front line service, with more developed marks.  I'm trying to think:

Zero
Spitfire
Me-109

The P-38 and P-40 were still in use, I think, but relegated to other than front line work, I think.  Anything else? 

I'm impressed how many pilots we trained to fly advanced aircraft.  I never got past a Cessna 172.

well hell CD just stick 6 50 caliber guns on those wings and you would fit right in
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4882 on: April 16, 2021, 04:09:56 PM »
which I think was the advent of the P-51 D version

they could now compete effectively against the German fighters as they could operate at 15,000 ft altitudes while maintaining their range

When the D version arrived on the scene The Germans just had no answer for it
The Focke Wulf 190 was more than a match the problem by that time was not enough - pilots,fuel,planes
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Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4883 on: April 16, 2021, 04:15:17 PM »
The FW-190A had a V engine, the D model had a rotary engine.  One factor in all of this was US produced very high octane fuel.  We could make it, the Germans couldn't.  They resorted to techniques like water and methanol injection.

Interestingly, one of the guys who helped developed high octane aviation fuel was a Shell Chemical engineer named Jimmy Doolittle.  He later was their head of R&D.  They have a large framed painting of him at their Westhollow Research Center, which they otherwise would have named after him.  He had a PhD in chemical engineering.

I think he also did something during the war ... some ridiculously impossible.

Cincydawg

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4884 on: April 16, 2021, 04:20:27 PM »
My Dad was a radar operator on a B-24 in the SW Pacific.  On his 13th mission (he had flown antisub patrols out of Langley earlier), they had a "runaway supercharger", and had to go back for another plane.  This one later went down, my Dad doesn't know what happened, in the ocean.  He thinks the heavy radar dome hit the water first and tore the fuselage in half and he floated out, he was unconscious and hurt.  The copilot went through the windscreen, and the flight engineer followed, the only three to survive.

They were picked up by a US destroyer in the morning.  My Dad and the copilot badly hurt, the flight engineer, a Lt. Lamica, kept them afloat during the night.  I met the copilot once, his forehead was at a strange angle.  My Dad was finally awarded a Purple Heart in 1970 something.  So, now I have two in my possession.


MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #4885 on: April 16, 2021, 04:22:13 PM »
 He had a PhD in chemical engineering.

I think he also did something during the war ... some ridiculously impossible.
You chemical guys get to experiment with things
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