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Topic: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #140 on: August 05, 2023, 03:30:03 AM »
What are the Big 12 divisions going to look like, with the Utes and the Arizona twins?


https://twitter.com/utahathletics/status/1687637093957464064?s=20

I'd put the new schools out west with the Texas schools and throw CU in with it's old Big 8 friends + the eastern newbies:
Utah, BYU, ASU, Arizona, Texas Tech, Baylor, Houston
CU, Kansas, KSU, OK State, ISU, Cinci, WV, UCF
.
Or you could do North/South:
Utah, BYU, CU, Kansas, KSU, ISU, Cinci, WV
ASU, Arizona, OK State, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Houston, UCF
.
Or some other crazy shit.



“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #141 on: August 05, 2023, 03:35:19 AM »
I heard that in the Arizona meeting last night, Arizona said they were leaving, Utah was going to join them and ASU, but the ASU guy reversed course and wanted to wait for a GoR meeting this morning.  He had been gung-ho for leaving until that meeting.  It was so bizarre, such a change of direction, that people in the meeting were asking if he was okay.
So they had the GoR meeting this morning and the only schools to vote for it were WSU and ASU.  So for whatever reason, in some 11th hour reversal, ASU is reluctantly leaving with Arizona and Utah.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 02:44:24 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #142 on: August 05, 2023, 06:01:30 PM »
Cal-Berkley is in some serious trouble.



Mdot21

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #143 on: August 05, 2023, 06:12:43 PM »
Cal-Berkley is in some serious trouble.


jesus christ they are $440 million in debt and with no tv $$$$ to help pay it off. they are seriously fkd.

longhorn320

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #144 on: August 05, 2023, 06:56:26 PM »
Cal-Berkley is in some serious trouble.



not sure what this number represents
is it total expenses per year
is it amount owed after applying current year income making it a carry forward debt
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longhorn320

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #145 on: August 05, 2023, 06:59:53 PM »
UT makes about $20 million a year more then annual expenses so Im not sure how they have any debt outstanding
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utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #146 on: August 05, 2023, 07:04:45 PM »
UT makes about $20 million a year more then annual expenses so Im not sure how they have any debt outstanding
The debts are related to capital expenditures-- I don't know about all of them but in the cases of UT, A&M, and Cal-Berkeley, I know for a fact that it's coming from recent stadium renovations/reconstructions within the past 10 years that are still being paid off.  In UT's case these are not paid for by operating revenue and don't show up on the income statement.

But for Berkley I found this blurb from 2013:

The stadium cost $321 million to renovate and the athletic center cost $153 million, according to a San Francisco Chronicle report. Stadium debt already absorbs 20 percent of intercollegiate athletics' annual income, or roughly $18 million of its $89 million budget.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1680579-cals-stadium-renovation-debt-shows-schools-need-to-keep-football-in-perspective#:~:text=The%20stadium%20cost%20%24321%20million,of%20its%20%2489%20million%20budget.

The fact that ten years later they still have $440M of the original $493M outstanding, and they have lost pretty much their entire TV revenue that was being used for debt service, is a real problem.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 07:10:12 PM by utee94 »

longhorn320

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #147 on: August 05, 2023, 07:07:14 PM »
The debts are related to capital expenditures-- I don't know about all of them but in the cases of UT, A&M, and Cal-Berkeley, it's coming from recent stadium renovations/reconstructions within the past 10 years that are still being paid off.  These are not paid for by operating revenue and don't show up on the income statement.
the last stadium expansion has about $174 mill of outstanding debt so I guess thats the answer to my question
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utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #148 on: August 05, 2023, 07:13:15 PM »
the last stadium expansion has about $174 mill of outstanding debt so I guess thats the answer to my question
Yup.  And read above where I edited, it looks even more dire for Berkley than I had previously thought.  They still owe $440M on their $493M facilities debt from 2013, and they were basically using their entire TV revenue for debt service.  They're in a very, very scary position right now.

longhorn320

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #149 on: August 05, 2023, 07:25:19 PM »
Yup.  And read above where I edited, it looks even more dire for Berkley than I had previously thought.  They still owe $440M on their $493M facilities debt from 2013, and they were basically using their entire TV revenue for debt service.  They're in a very, very scary position right now.
Is UT servicing its stadium debt from athletic income or does it come from other sources
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bayareabadger

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #150 on: August 05, 2023, 08:34:48 PM »
Cal caught the wrong end of all that something fierce: 

"You can't compete with old facilities."

"TV will pay for some level of facilities improvement"

"Oh, s$#*"

Cal's setup was positively ancient before they fixed things up. But they were also at the bottom level of a certain kind of program. They were a team that did football because they've always done football and if you have the stupid stadium, might as well play (plus they had a decent run of competence for maybe 8 years). But it's a school with a low passion level for football with a student body that is both interested in sports way less than an average P5 team and not really trained up on being interested in football. Also in a pro sports area, also lacking in a crazy alum who just invests for the hell of it. 

It's a nerd school, but not one in the south, where the area's natural football culture will lift all boats. I wouldn't be surprised if it was gone in the next decade, and I don't totally know if it's the worst thing. And I say that as someone who went to a LOT of Cal games in high school. They were fun, but the world and school are VERY different now. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #151 on: August 05, 2023, 09:56:20 PM »
Use their endowment, cut a check.  :57:
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

utee94

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #152 on: August 05, 2023, 10:10:28 PM »
Is UT servicing its stadium debt from athletic income or does it come from other sources

Of that I'm not sure, it's been a while since I perused UT's financials.  But if Texas is servicing the debt through athletic income, the point is that it can still afford to do so.  Cal-Berkley, on the other hand, can't.  And looking at just the high level pro forma of their athletic budget, it seems crazy that they ever attempted to do so, at least on that kind of scale.


FearlessF

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Re: Imminent Pac12 breakup, where do the schools go?
« Reply #153 on: August 05, 2023, 11:13:11 PM »
academic folks don't live in the real world of finances and accountants 
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