Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

Yeah this is why I suggested both would be pursued by the B12.  But if you didn't HAVE to take them both...

But the other thing to keep in mind, is that the weaker the PAC becomes, the better it is for the B12's long term survival.  So in that sense, it might be worth taking both AZ schools, just to keep firing nails into that coffin.

And I'll also note that as a traditionalist, I hate having survival of the fittest conversations about college football conferences.  I grew up watching and enjoying PAC football and the traditions and pageantry in that conference.  But this is where we've landed in 2023.

I agree on both counts. I'd rather TX and OU stay in the XII, the LA twins stay in the Pac, etc but that ship has sailed and these, as you so aptly put it, "survival of the fittest conversations about college football" are what is left.

I agree that weakening the Pac is in the general interests of the XII but I see that as a shorter term consideration. The Pac is on life support, I think the XII already won that battle. When the dust settles they are, IMHO, going to have two concerns:

• Being strong enough that the ACC can't poach from them, and
• Being as close to competitive with the SEC/B1G as possible.

That is where I think you want the strongest collection of teams going forward.

Arizona is the 14th most populous state with 7.2M. That is roughly equivalent to Indiana (#17 with 6.8M) and I already said that I don't think Indiana warrants two major conference schools. Arizona is growing faster but I also don't know that even a much more populous state like Ohio (#7 with 11.8M) or even Illinois (#6 with 12.8M) warrants two major conference schools.

I guess if I'm the XII after reconsidering I'd add:

• One AZ school
• SDSU
• UNLV

That gets them to 16 with a footprint of:

• California, SDSU
• Arizona, probably Zona
• Nevada, UNLV
• Utah, BYU
• Colorado, UC
• Oklahoma, OkSU
• Kansas, KU, KSU
• Texas, TCU, TxTech, Houston, Baylor
• Florida, UCF
• West Virginia, WVU
• Ohio, Cincy
• Iowa, ISU

Then I'd offer Oregon, Washington, California, and Stanford. I'd assume that the B1G would probably take at least one of those but I'd be happy to get any that I could. If I lost one of those last four to the B1G, I'd probably replace them with Air Force but I'd have to look at Air Force's ratings #'s. Maybe Boise or another California school.

If I am an Arizona fan, why am I going to tune into an Arizona State game. Sure, it is on my cable system, but my team isn't playing.

And I'll also note that as a traditionalist, I hate having survival of the fittest conversations about college football conferences.  I grew up watching and enjoying PAC football and the traditions and pageantry in that conference.  But this is where we've landed in 2023.

This reminds me of the old History Channel show "The Real West" where at the start the indian voice narrates:
"In that time when there were only simple ways I saw with my heart the conflicts to come and whether it was to be for or for bad what was certain was that there would be change"

They have really faffed up a good thing - they couldn't leave well enough alone.Had to destroy all of the natural/regional/time honored traditions and rivalries. Never enough is there? - not for the corporate whores,let's faff up just one thing there may be money in it

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-big-ten-has-begun-preliminary-talks-to-potentially-add-oregon-washington-cal-and-stanford-173934989.html

This does not mean it's happening it just means they are talking

would be a disaster. please, god no.

This reminds me of the old History Channel show "The Real West" where at the start the indian voice narrates:
"In that time when there were only simple ways I saw with my heart the conflicts to come and whether it was to be for or for bad what was certain was that there would be change"

They have really faffed up a good thing - they couldn't leave well enough alone.Had to destroy all of the natural/regional/time honored traditions and rivalries. Never enough is there? - not for the corporate whores,let's faff up just one thing there may be money in it

Amen.
I'd peg 1993 as the best year of college football organization.
A fully-formed Big East, Pac-10, Big 10 w/ PSU, Big 8, SEC, ACC w/ FSU, the SWC was still around, with BYU in the WAC.
.
Could have had an 8-team playoff with the 7 major conference champs and the "G5-type" highest-ranked team hosting a big-boy at-large team as a play-in game.

no need to ruin the 93 season with a playoff

Then ND fans could shut up.
1. FSU (ACC champ)
2. Nebraska (Big 8 champ)
3. West Virginia (Big East champ)
4. Notre Dame (ind, hosts at-large in play-in game)
5. Auburn (probation, could be at-large, or not, if you want them ineligible)
6. Tennessee (would be at-large if Auburn isn't)
7. Texas A&M (SWC champ)
8. Florida (SEC champ)
9. Wisconsin (Big Ten co-champ, tied OSU, but UW went to RB)
10. Miami OUT
11. OSU OUT
12. UNC OUT
13 Penn St OUT
14 UCLA (PAC-10 champ)
That's the top 14 in the AP poll.  Your 8 teams are within the top 14.  If I put Auburn in:
Auburn @ ND play-in game
(winner is seeded where they're ranked, not screwing the 1 seed)
1 FSU vs 8-seed UCLA
4 ND (say they won) vs 5 Texas A&M
3 WV vs 6 Florida
2 Nebraska vs 7 Wisconsin
.
ND beat A&M in real life, as did Florida over WV (big).
FSU would whip UCLA and Nebraska-Wiscy is a good game.

I can still see Boo Hoo Lou with his neck brace on whining from 93

the Domer fans can just STFU

Husker fans didn't whine

too much

Well, not about the MNC, just about a handful of calls in the Orange Bowl