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Topic: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #434 on: August 21, 2017, 04:56:14 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2017, 04:37:52 PM
That's a pretty B1G-centric view.

There were periods in the 80s and 90s when national perception of the Rose Bowl was low due to perceived lack of strength in the PAC and B10.  The term "Doze Bowl" was extremely common in the 90s.

I don't think it is B1G centric.  The specific question I was answering was this:
"I wonder if the Cotton Bowl being relegated to irrelevance the last 20 years hinders Texas in something like this"
Of the last 20 Cotton Bowls (Jan 1, 2008 through Jan 2, 2017) only one had a team ranked higher than #4 (December, 2015 when it was a CFP playoff game).  Here are the rankings for the last 20:
  • #8 v #12
  • 2 v 3 (the CFP game)
  • 4 v 7
  • 9 v 13
  • 9 v 11
  • 7 v 11
  • 11 v 18
  • 21 v nr
  • 8 v 20
  • 7 v 25
  • 10 v 22
  • 8 v 20
  • 15 v 22
  • 16 v 21
  • 9 v nr
  • 10 v nr
  • 11 v 21
  • 14 v 24
  • 20 v 25
  • 5 v 20
Only the CFP game had any impact on the NC.  Compare to the Rose:
  • #5 v #9
  • 5 v 6
  • 2 v 3 (CFP playoff game)
  • 4 v 5
  • 8 v nr
  • 6 v 9
  • 3 v 4
  • 7 v 8
  • 5 v 6
  • 6 v 13
  • 3 v 8
  • 1 v 2 (BCSNCG)
  • 6 v 13
  • 1 v 4 (the year that USC was #1 in the AP but not in the BCSNCG)
  • 7 v 8
  • 1 v 4 (BCSNCG)
  • 4 v 14
  • 4 v 22
  • 6 v 9
  • 1 v 8
That is five Rosebowls with an impact on the NC compared to only one Cotton Bowl.  Comparing year-to-year the Rose was the bigger game (in terms of where the teams were ranked) almost every year. 
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utee94

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #435 on: August 21, 2017, 05:04:04 PM »
Your comment was "all of USC's Rose Bowls still look great" and I'm disagreeing with that.  Nationally, the PAC and/or B1G were considered inferior conferences many years during the 80s and 90s, and Rose Bowls were considered to be real snoozers.



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TyphonInc

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #436 on: August 21, 2017, 07:57:13 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2017, 04:37:52 PM
That's a pretty B1G-centric view.

There were periods in the 80s and 90s when national perception of the Rose Bowl was low due to perceived lack of strength in the PAC and B10.  The term "Doze Bowl" was extremely common in the 90s. 

I have literally never heard that term "Doze Bowl" before.

January 1, 1990   #3 Michigan   
January 1, 1992   #2 Washington   #4 Michigan
January 2, 1995   #2 Penn State   
January 1, 1996   #3 Northwestern
January 1, 1997   #2 Arizona State   #4 Ohio State   
January 1, 1998   #1 Michigan

Not being part of the almost BCS the Rose still featured 8 teams ranked in the top 4 for the decade and 6 of the games were decided by les than a score. I can't fathom how or why anyone would use that term, especially in relation to the non-important Cotton Bowl.
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FearlessF

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #437 on: August 21, 2017, 08:40:10 PM »
I've heard and used the term "Doze Bowl" many times.


Probably a Big 12 thing


I think it was coined because for a good time, the Rose had little say in the national championship


while one team in the contest may have been ranked in the top ten, usually not both teams.


the Orange and Sugar were many times matching 2 top 5 teams or even 2 top 3 teams and some times #1 vs #2 matchups
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utee94

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #438 on: August 21, 2017, 09:11:01 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on August 21, 2017, 08:40:10 PM
I've heard and used the term "Doze Bowl" many times.


Probably a Big 12 thing


I think it was coined because for a good time, the Rose had little say in the national championship


while one team in the contest may have been ranked in the top ten, usually not both teams.


the Orange and Sugar were many times matching 2 top 5 teams or even 2 top 3 teams and some times #1 vs #2 matchups

It wasn't a B12 thing.  It was an "everyone in the country except the B10" thing.

And I didn't include PAC above, because PAC fans have always been few and far between no matter where you looked.  Football just isn't as important to them.
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FearlessF

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #439 on: August 21, 2017, 09:20:27 PM »
I used to torment Big Ten Hawkeye fans back in the day


but, no longer....... we're Big Ten West brothers today!
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utee94

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #440 on: August 21, 2017, 09:29:13 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on August 21, 2017, 09:20:27 PM
I used to torment Big Ten Hawkeye fans back in the day


but, no longer....... we're Big Ten West brothers today!

Yeah.  Good luck with that.

I, on the other hand, used to defend the B10 and the Rose Bowl from the rest of the country.  I've always liked the Rose Bowl, even when it was boring as shit because the B10 and PAC were bad. 

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MrNubbz

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #441 on: August 21, 2017, 09:33:01 PM »
Bevo
Spoiled Children
Bert
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MarqHusker

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #442 on: August 21, 2017, 10:57:24 PM »
My indicator for Texas' slide coincides when they instituted that self imposed tv ban w BevoTv.


USC
TEXAS
ARK
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #443 on: August 21, 2017, 11:05:22 PM »
I've never heard "Doze Bowl", but growing up in Florida, I'd watch the Citrus over the Rose.  The Rose always came on at a weird time, like 4:00 or something like that. 

My first bowl memories was the 10-9 CU-ND game where Rocket ran it back, but it didn't count. That same year (1990 season), living in Jacksonville, I recall Michigan running all over Ole Miss in the Gator Bowl.

In the '91 bowl season, I wanted Michigan to beat Washington, but my main memories are Bettis and ND running all over Florida in the Sugar that year. 

The only Roses I remember really sitting down and watching were:
95 season - pulling for underdog Northwestern losing to USC
96 season - OSU beating ASU, making the Sugar the de facto NC game
01 season - NC game - Miami all over UNL

Since then, I'd say any playoff or NC games, but I don't remember #1 USC vs Michigan in the 03 season.  I liked the Dayne games for Wisconsin, but I had no clue the Badgers beat UCLA 5 years earlier in the Rose as well.

Hmmph.  Just a share.
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rolltidefan

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #444 on: August 22, 2017, 10:12:07 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2017, 05:04:04 PM
Your comment was "all of USC's Rose Bowls still look great" and I'm disagreeing with that.  Nationally, the PAC and/or B1G were considered inferior conferences many years during the 80s and 90s, and Rose Bowls were considered to be real snoozers.





to be fair, there's probably a lot of regionality in that. i bet the midwest and west coast didn't think of the rose like the bigxii, sec and east coast did.


usc
texas

arky
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #445 on: August 22, 2017, 10:49:01 AM »
USC
Texas




Ark
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DevilFroggy

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #446 on: August 22, 2017, 11:05:24 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 21, 2017, 10:45:02 AM
Having the Cotton Bowl slip out for a few years is interesting.  Now it's back.


I doubt a Peach Bowl win in 1972 is going to gain any allure though.

ASU 1970 Peach Bowl Champs! Suck it, North Carolina.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Helmet Team Ranking Exercise
« Reply #447 on: August 22, 2017, 11:12:48 AM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 21, 2017, 05:04:04 PM
Your comment was "all of USC's Rose Bowls still look great" and I'm disagreeing with that.  Nationally, the PAC and/or B1G were considered inferior conferences many years during the 80s and 90s, and Rose Bowls were considered to be real snoozers.
He asked about the Cotton Bowl's current slide possibly making past Cotton Bowl wins look less impressive.  What I was getting at with my answer was that I think some fans, especially younger ones, might tend to look at Texas' history of Cotton Bowls and USC's history of Rose Bowls and just assume that USC's Rose Bowl wins were bigger because the Rose has been decidedly bigger for the past ~20 years. 


Summary of the last 20 years worth of Rose and Cotton Bowls:
  • The Rose has hosted four #1's, the Cotton none. 
  • The Rose has hosted two #2's, the Cotton one. 
  • The Rose has hosted three #3's, the Cotton one. 
  • The Rose has hosted six #4's, the Cotton one. 
  • The Rose has hosted four #5's, the Cotton one.  Total for top-5:  Rose: 19; Cotton: 4
  • The Rose has hosted six #6's, the Cotton none. 
  • The Rose has hosted two #7's, the Cotton three. 
  • The Rose has hosted five #8's, the Cotton three. 
  • The Rose has hosted three #9's, the Cotton three. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #10, the Cotton has hosted two #10's.  Total for top-10:  Rose: 35; Cotton: 15
  • The Rose has not hosted #11, the Cotton has hosted four #11's. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #12, the Cotton has hosted one #12. 
  • The Rose has hosted two #13's, the Cotton has hosted one. 
  • The Rose has hosted one #14, the Cotton one. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #15, the Cotton has hosted one #15. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #16, the Cotton has hosted one #16. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #17, neither has the Cotton. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #18, the Cotton has hosted one #18. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #19, neither has the Cotton. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #20, the Cotton has hosted four #20's. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #21, the Cotton has hosted three #21's. 
  • The Rose has hosted one #22, the Cotton has hosted two. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #23, neither has the Cotton. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #24, the Cotton has hosted one #24. 
  • The Rose has not hosted #25, the Cotton has hosted two #25's.  Total for top-25:  Rose: 39; Cotton 37
  • The Rose has hosted one unranked team, the Cotton three. 
I get what you are saying about the 80's and (early) 90's but the original question specifically referenced the "Cotton Bowl being relegated to irrelevance the last 20 years."  That is the bowls for the 1997 and subsequent seasons.  There are no 80's era seasons included and there are only three 90's era seasons.  In those three seasons in the 90's (97-99) the Rose Bowl hosted one team (Michigan, 1997 season/1998 Rose Bowl) that was ranked #1 and playing for a NC.  The highest ranked team that the Cotton Bowl hosted was #5 UCLA.  Ironically, UCLA was only available for the Cotton Bowl because they were NOT the PAC Champion.  That UCLA team lost H2H to Washington State.  Washington State was the PAC Champion and they lost the Michigan in the Rose Bowl. 


Aside from #5 UCLA in the 1997 season the other five teams that played in the Cotton Bowl in the 1997-1999 seasons were ranked #14, #20 (twice), #24, and #25.  The Cotton Bowl, for the past 20 years has been almost completely irrelevant. 
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