header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

 (Read 34744 times)

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71627
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #728 on: May 06, 2020, 04:53:12 PM »
I think social media has exacerbated what once was mostly hidden partisanship and extremism.  You knew your neighbors and maybe waved at them etc.  Now if you want you can find their posts on SM easily enough and perhaps discover they are radical Left or Right wingers.  Couple this with the rife disinformation and silliness we all see on SM and you have stirred up a witches brew of extremism that now is out in the open.

Discussions that used to be largely private no longer are, and it stirs emotions, and I suspect some people who once were more centrist have become more extreme trying to counter whatever they heard from whoever they read.

Add to all that confirmation bias ....  I can find support for just about any position SOMEWHERE on the Internet, I just have to ignore a bunch of contrary information and discard that as being biased or from "experts" or extremists of the other side.  This shows up in the climate change "discussion" obviously.  All I need to do is cling to "experts" who write what I WANT to believe and ignore the rest.

Any real attempt to delve into the matter even handedly is complicated, time consuming, and frankly confusing in some places.

And now we confront another technical "crisis" or issue or problem, and "we" are simply not prepared to analyze it, so "we" develop an opinion, based on our political views, and then rush to find whatever supports that.


Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14379
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #729 on: May 06, 2020, 04:58:10 PM »
You mean things like "resist", "not my president", kids being put through hell for wearing red hats, and endless investigations?

Stuff like that?

:67:

(no need to answer... we are just really f'd up right now.)
LOL. I've never seen anything like this. Trump won fair and square and it sent people into looney tunes mode.

Obama was awful. I was so completely disappointed in him. His track record was just awful. Everything he ran on in 2008 wound up just being a pack of lies and bullshit.

Obama had to deal with Fox News' ridiculous coverage of him being a secret Kenyan Muslim, but other than that the media held his bath water for his mostly horrific track record and continued expansion of wars and other Bush policies. Obama had a press that basically covered for him. He was able to get away with shit that W could've only dreamed of.

Big Beef Tacosupreme

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 930
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #730 on: May 06, 2020, 05:02:35 PM »
You mean things like "resist", "not my president", kids being put through hell for wearing red hats, and endless investigations?

Stuff like that?

:67:

(no need to answer... we are just really f'd up right now.)
"Not my president", "endless investigations", and "resist" all happened under Obama, too.  With a vocal minority, the anger was very real.  Donald Trump's campaign cultivated that anger.  "Make American Great Again."   It was enough to get him the republican nomination.

I don't think that Trump is a typical Republican, and I'm really curious where the party will be going after he's gone.  I'm hoping they go back to the civility of McCain, Romney, and Kasich.  Pipe dream?

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12222
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #731 on: May 06, 2020, 05:11:11 PM »
I think social media has exacerbated what once was mostly hidden partisanship and extremism.  You knew your neighbors and maybe waved at them etc.  Now if you want you can find their posts on SM easily enough and perhaps discover they are radical Left or Right wingers.  Couple this with the rife disinformation and silliness we all see on SM and you have stirred up a witches brew of extremism that now is out in the open.

Discussions that used to be largely private no longer are, and it stirs emotions, and I suspect some people who once were more centrist have become more extreme trying to counter whatever they heard from whoever they read.
Exactly. It used to be that you didn't likely know many of your relatives' political views. It's generally impolite to discuss it, and to a large extent you probably saw many of them 2-3 times a year at both. So except for crazy Uncle Phil who spouts off about politics like a crank every Thanksgiving, and who everyone essentially ignores because he's a boor, it doesn't come up.

Well, now you have to be "friends" with those relatives on Facebook. And they share memes. And argue with each other. And create divisions even within families where there need be none. 

I literally witnessed my own father (using my mom's FB account because he doesn't have his own) arguing about NObama and Hitlery with my cousin Mary, who is a hardcore leftist and spouts off about Trump all the time. They don't even live in the same state any more, and very well may never see each other again within my parents' lifetimes! Why interact at all?!

I gave up. I still have a FB account for Messenger, but I don't "use" it or even look at it. I get... very stabby.

Quote
Add to all that confirmation bias ....  I can find support for just about any position SOMEWHERE on the Internet, I just have to ignore a bunch of contrary information and discard that as being biased or from "experts" or extremists of the other side.  This shows up in the climate change "discussion" obviously.  All I need to do is cling to "experts" who write what I WANT to believe and ignore the rest.
This is huge. While we can complain about the "MSM" all we want, prior to the internet we all basically lived in the same world and shared the same facts. 

Now you can construct your own reality based on the sources that already agree with you. To a large extend, Republicans and Democrats no longer even live in the same reality. When one side wonders how the other can believe something in the face of the evidence, they fail to realize that they don't live in a reality where the evidence presented on both sides is the same. They used to say everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. But if you can construct a world where you're never presented with facts that might make you uncomfortable, you now ARE entitled to your own facts!

I brought up in the coronavirus thread that there's a huge difficulty in turning data into information. The world is awash in data, and it's full of people who are going to try to twist that data into telling the story with the spin they want to present. So people can feel like they're working with the "facts", because they're too dumb to see how the data is being twisted to tell the story. 


Quote
Any real attempt to delve into the matter even handedly is complicated, time consuming, and frankly confusing in some places.
It's a lot of work, and most people don't have the intelligence. 


Quote
And now we confront another technical "crisis" or issue or problem, and "we" are simply not prepared to analyze it, so "we" develop an opinion, based on our political views, and then rush to find whatever supports that.
We've literally turned a pandemic into a political football. I'd like to say I'm surprised by that. I'm not. I am saddened, though. 

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14379
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #732 on: May 06, 2020, 05:12:01 PM »
"Not my president", "endless investigations", and "resist" all happened under Obama, too.  With a vocal minority, the anger was very real.  Donald Trump's campaign cultivated that anger.  "Make American Great Again."  It was enough to get him the republican nomination.

I don't think that Trump is a typical Republican, and I'm really curious where the party will be going after he's gone.  I'm hoping they go back to the civility of McCain, Romney, and Kasich.  Pipe dream?
Which endless investigations happened under Obama? Anybody investigate him killing American citizens without charge or due process. I don't remember that one.

Anybody else remember any investigations into the nobel peace prize winning President destroying Yemen, Syria, or Libya. Funny. I don't remember those investigations.

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25280
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #733 on: May 06, 2020, 05:14:10 PM »
I don't know what republican or democrat even means anymore. Republican certainly isn't what was when Lincoln was in charge, and democrat certainly isn't what it was when Kennedy was in charge.

Just tell me what "your" plans are, and if I like those plans, or don't dislike them as much as the other person's plans, I'll make my mind up.

I really dislike the fact that they are all forced by "leadership" to pick a "side" to be on when they get to DC, or risk losing funding, etc.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25280
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #734 on: May 06, 2020, 05:15:41 PM »
"Not my president", "endless investigations", and "resist" all happened under Obama, too.  
Not like it is now. Now is different.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Mdot21

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 14379
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #735 on: May 06, 2020, 05:21:58 PM »
I don't know what republican or democrat even means anymore. Republican certainly isn't what was when Lincoln was in charge, and democrat certainly isn't what it was when Kennedy was in charge.

Just tell me what "your" plans are, and if I like those plans, or don't dislike them as much as the other person's plans, I'll make my mind up.

I really dislike the fact that they are all forced by "leadership" to pick a "side" to be on when they get to DC, or risk losing funding, etc.
I think it's incredibly stupid to only have two parties. And I am neither Republican or Democrat. I usually either don't vote or I'll vote for the person who I think is lesser of two evils. I voted for Obama in 2008. I voted for Romney in 2012. I voted for no one in 2016.

We have a broken system. Need more choice. Should have multiple parties. Why just two?

Big Beef Tacosupreme

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 930
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #736 on: May 06, 2020, 05:22:43 PM »
Not like it is now. Now is different.
Yep, it was worse then.

Of course I live in formerly coal county PA.  People around here think Trump is the messiah.  The hatred during the Obama years was real.  I think we had more confederate flags flying than South Carolina.

Chicago is probably different, I'm guessing? (that was tongue-in-cheek...)


betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12222
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #737 on: May 06, 2020, 05:29:57 PM »
I think it's incredibly stupid to only have two parties. And I am neither Republican or Democrat. I usually either don't vote or I'll vote for the person who I think is lesser of two evils. I voted for Obama in 2008. I voted for Romney in 2012. I voted for no one in 2016.

We have a broken system. Need more choice. Should have multiple parties. Why just two?
Our system structurally cannot be stable with more than two. It's inherent in our direct representation system and in our voting structure.





Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71627
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #738 on: May 06, 2020, 06:05:48 PM »
Yup, the electoral college means only two parties are possible except for a brief transition period like 1860.


MichiFan87

  • Player
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 796
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #739 on: May 06, 2020, 06:28:19 PM »
To answer an earlier question, Biden got nominated because the primary system is broken.

There's no reason that Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina should have such disproportionate influence on who gets nominated, but that's how it is.

I think I suggested before that presidential primaries should be held in the order that the party got the most percentage of votes, so the Democratic side would start with states like Hawaii and DC and the Republican side with Wyoming and North Dakota.
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
― Bo Schembechler

CWSooner

  • Team Captain
  • *******
  • Posts: 6052
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #740 on: May 06, 2020, 06:32:49 PM »
Eh, I tried to stay factual.  But I probably shouldn't have posted.  You're a better man than me.
Nah!  I just had more time to reflect on it.
Play Like a Champion Today

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 25280
  • Liked:
Re: Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)
« Reply #741 on: May 06, 2020, 06:39:36 PM »
Yep, it was worse then.

Of course I live in formerly coal county PA.  People around here think Trump is the messiah.  The hatred during the Obama years was real.  I think we had more confederate flags flying than South Carolina.

Chicago is probably different, I'm guessing? (that was tongue-in-cheek...)


OK, so now it's a different topic. You're talking racism. Yes, that was different in some places. The guy in charge now is not black, but is hated by most blacks and browns, and 40 percent of whites. In many, it runs very deep. That I see in Chicago and other big cities like it.

Certainly in Chicago, 44 was revered by "his" people, who he did absolutely nothing for, by the way. Ask any local Rep from the South and West sides and they don't talk fondly of the man.

So, anyway, the Chicago Machine went to Washington.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.