Government Policy and Budget Discussion Thread (no politics)

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

Um, no there wasn't. If that's what people think is interfering with elections well, they are on crack cocaine. They generated memes on social media! OH NO. Give me a break. This is so absolutely pathetic it doesn't even rise to the level of bullshit. Like I said, get back to me when you can show they actually rig a US election- like the US actually did in Russia in the 90's to get Yeltsin elected. Like the US has done all over the world and worse for the past 60+ years.

How come the DNC never let the FBI look at it's servers or computers. KINDA WEIRD NO, IF YOU'RE CLAIMING YOU WERE HACKED. And how the F#!K can the DNC even make that decision? HOW? FBI should've had the right to seize the servers if they were in fact hacked.

The 13 indictments that Mueller's investigation made were people that will never in a million years see the inside of a US courtroom and were also people that don't work for the Russian government. So. There's that too.

It was all a dog and pony show, and none of it passes the level of the sniff test.

That's all it takes, and they knew it.  Fabricated stories, memes, hacking -- they only need to change 1% of the vote, and that is equivalent to a 2% jump on election day.

I can't really blame Russia.  52% of Russian budget revenues and 70% of their exports are from oil and gas.  One party aims to change that by investing heavily in green energy.  That's a very serious problem for them.

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

No. You're not wrong. It was an incredibly stupid decision by the supreme court to equate money with free speech- only to see an already corrupt system explode into the stratosphere of corruption.

Joe Biden has a 50+ year history of being a corrupt morally bankrupt useful idiot for his corporate masters. Forget his one son making $83,000 A MONTH as a consultant for a Ukranian gas company for a moment. Both of his sons and his brother have literally made millions of dollars off of his name/political career. And he's an absolute pushover on China. The guy has been a puppet of China for the last 30 years. Throw in the fact that he's got early on set dementia and holeeeeee shit. How anyone could even think of voting for him is beyond me.

This election to me hinges on the economy, free trade- not the investor rights agreements we have now- but actual free trade- and China- all things that Trump is far superior than senile old MBNA Joe on.

Were you a Sanders supporter?

[Mdot21]

That's all it takes, and they knew it.  Fabricated stories, memes, hacking -- they only need to change 1% of the vote, and that is equivalent to a 2% jump on election day.

I can't really blame Russia.  52% of Russian budget revenues and 70% of their exports are from oil and gas.  One party aims to change that by investing heavily in green energy.  That's a very serious problem for them.

Lol. No. I'm sorry but if people think memes actually swung an election, I don't know what to say to that. It's hilarious. And if any person gets their news from facebook well, they are an idiot that probably shouldn't even have the right to vote. Forget Russia for a moment. One of the biggest problems this country has is f###ing Facebook. It's ruining peoples lives. I am so down for it being shutdown and that dickless little dweeb Mark Zuckerberg being hanged in a public square. Seriously that guy is SO weird. Every time I hear him talk or be interviewed my skin crawls. I think the guy might be a serial killer or something. Weirdest little dweeb I've ever seen in my life.

Why does nobody remember 2007-2008 when Obama and Dodd both flat out came out and said in the primary debates that Hillary is one of the most unlikable people in the country and therefore unelectable. Newsflash: THEY WERE RIGHT.

The claim that the Democratic party wants to invest heavily in green energy and that's why Russia doesn't like Hillary is also laughable. Hillary Clinton is a war hawk. There has never been a war she wasn't for. And she was openly speaking of going to war with Russia. That's why they didn't like her.

Do you have any idea how the US absolutely and completely helped Yeltsin rig an election in Russia in the 90s? Read up on it. They completely stole/rigged that election. Now THAT is interference in an election. Not some f$$#king memes on twitter or facebook.

[Mdot21]

Were you a Sanders supporter?

I would have voted for him yes. I don't agree with him on everything, and a lot of his agenda he'd never have been able to push through, but he was the best choice of the lot in my opinion.

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

Lol. No. I'm sorry but if people think memes actually swung an election, I don't know what to say to that. It's hilarious. And if any person gets their news from facebook well, they are an idiot that probably shouldn't even have the right to vote. Forget Russia for a moment. One of the biggest problems this country has is f###ing Facebook. It's ruining peoples lives. I am so down for it being shutdown and that dickless little dweeb Mark Zuckerberg being hanged in a public square. Seriously that guy is SO weird. Every time I hear him talk or be interviewed my skin crawls. I think the guy might be a serial killer or something. Weirdest little dweeb I've ever seen in my life.

Why does nobody remember 2007-2008 when Obama and Dodd both flat out came out and said in the primary debates that Hillary is one of the most unlikable people in the country and therefore unelectable. Newsflash: THEY WERE RIGHT.

The claim that the Democratic party wants to invest heavily in green energy and that's why Russia doesn't like Hillary is also laughable. Hillary Clinton is a war hawk. There has never been a war she wasn't for. And she was openly speaking of going to war with Russia. That's why they didn't like her.

Do you have any idea how the US absolutely and completely helped Yeltsin rig an election in Russia in the 90s? Read up on it. They completely stole/rigged that election. Now THAT is interference in an election. Not some f$$#king memes on twitter or facebook.

Well, sadly, people do.  Which is why it was effective.  And it wasn't just Facebook.

It was much more genius than that, though.  For instance, they were able to track people they believed could be "turned."  Conspiracy theorists.  People angered by antifa.  Disillusioned Sanders supporters.  Those that didn't vote.  Etc. etc. etc.

There are absolutely fascinating articles on the subject.  

There's more than just social media interference, though.  They also hacked into voting systems in all 50 states. Linkee

[Cincydawg]

I think to say they tried to hack voting systems is accurate.  To claim they succeeded is perhaps hyperbole;

"It concluded that while there was no evidence that any votes were changed in actual voting machines, “Russian cyberactors were in a position to delete or change voter data” in the Illinois voter database. The committee found no evidence that they did so."

[betarhoalphadelta]

Lol. No. I'm sorry but if people think memes actually swung an election, I don't know what to say to that. It's hilarious. And if any person gets their news from facebook well, they are an idiot that probably shouldn't even have the right to vote. Forget Russia for a moment. One of the biggest problems this country has is f###ing Facebook. It's ruining peoples lives. 

I think memes absolutely swing elections, and not just ones created by Russia.

Very few people think about politics [or the world, for that matter] in any level deeper than memes portray. 

Oh, and most people don't get their news from Facebook. They get their news from the headlines of articles shared on Facebook--and then share them again without having clicked or read the article itself. 

Facebook is a great way to spread things. The problem is the things that spread have no real bearing on whether those things are true.

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

I think to say they tried to hack voting systems is accurate.  To claim they succeeded is perhaps hyperbole;

"It concluded that while there was no evidence that any votes were changed in actual voting machines, “Russian cyberactors were in a position to delete or change voter data” in the Illinois voter database. The committee found no evidence that they did so."

They absolutely hacked voter systems in all 50 states. That does not meant they changed votes.  Those are two separate things.

[Mdot21]

Well, sadly, people do.  Which is why it was effective.  And it wasn't just Facebook.

It was much more genius than that, though.  For instance, they were able to track people they believed could be "turned."  Conspiracy theorists.  People angered by antifa.  Disillusioned Sanders supporters.  Those that didn't vote.  Etc. etc. etc.

There are absolutely fascinating articles on the subject. 

There's more than just social media interference, though.  They also hacked into voting systems in all 50 states. Linkee

Stop. Just stop. It wasn't effective. At all. Hillary Clinton was probably going to lose regardless of who she ran against. She lost because she didn't campaign hard enough in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. She lost those states and instead of taking blame, she puts it elsewhere. She doesn't even blame Russians for losing those states- she blames James Comey. She explicitly says this in her stupid book What Happened.

She lost because she was 100% for NAFTA and TPP and permanent normalized trade relations with China- before she wasn't. She lost because she was all for Wall Street and bailouts...until she wasn't. She lost because she was for the Iraq war. Until she wasn't. She lost because her astounding levels of corruption and talking out of both sides of her mouth had been highlighted and exposed by reporters and outlets like WikiLeaks.

All of the polling showed that Sanders would've defeated Trump. What happened to Bernie? Well Hillary hijacked a broke DNC by bankrolling it's funding and put her minions to work to screw Bernie out of the primary. Election meddling much? LOL.

Also: the Steele dossier which kicked off the entire Russigate collusion bullshit was funded...drum roll...BY CLINTON AND THE DNC! And who were Steele's two main sources for that garbage? A higher up in the Russian government and a Russian intelligence officer. Collusion much?

You should actually read the articles you link.

While details of many of the hackings directed by Russian intelligence, particularly in Illinois and Arizona, are well known, the committee described “an unprecedented level of activity against state election infrastructure” intended largely to search for vulnerabilities in the security of the election systems.

It concluded that while there was no evidence that any votes were changed in actual voting machines, “Russian cyberactors were in a position to delete or change voter data” in the Illinois voter database. The committee found no evidence that they did so.


Great. So just a bunch of bullshit only for Mueller to say- yeah we found no evidence they changed votes.

Just stop.

[Cincydawg]

Well, I personally do not believe Russian actions changed the outcome of the election.

I know some do.  I disagree.

[847badgerfan]

Does anyone here think we have found two of the best candidates for President, or anywhere close to it, in the country?

No, because they didn't ask me to run.

[847badgerfan]

I think the republicans fell off the deep end after Obama was elected.  So many conspiracy theories and so much anger.  

You mean things like "resist", "not my president", kids being put through hell for wearing red hats, and endless investigations?

Stuff like that?



(no need to answer... we are just really f'd up right now.)

[Big Beef Tacosupreme]

No, because they didn't ask me to run.

I'd vote for you.  But you'd have to make me your VP.

[Mdot21]

Well, I personally do not believe Russian actions changed the outcome of the election.

I know some do.  I disagree.

It didn't. These are people just grasping at straws. Pathetic straws at that.

Clinton lost because she was a TERRIBLE candidate. Period.

Clinton lost because for the past 30+ years failed neoliberal policies and corruption- in which she had huge hand in- have left millions of Americans behind.

Trump was able to tap into the anger and frustration of millions of people in states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania that have lost their jobs to out-sourcing and watched as their cities/towns crumbled.

Obama gave a bail-out to private equity landlords in his last hours of his Presidency only to come out of his short little public life exile to start doing speeches for $500,000 a pop to Blackstone- the largest private equity landlord in the entire f###king world. Clinton was part of the same political class and her and her husband have done that same sort of shit.

Reasons like this are why Trump won. He was saying I'm a billionaire- I'm rich, I'm so stupid rich- they can't buy me like they can Hillary or Obama. This is also a reason why he won. People are not stupid. They know Clinton, Obama, Biden, the lot of them are corrupt and have been bought and sold. The Republicans don't even try to hide it. The Democrats are evil because they pretend like they don't engage in this behavior, but they do- and in many instances worse than Republicans.

Hillary and Bill left the White House millions in debt. Not even 10 years later they were worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And this money didn't come from selling books. Some of it did. But only a small percentage. No one makes hundreds of millions of dollars from selling books unless they are writing Harry Potter or Game of Thrones or unbelievably popular shit like that. The Clinton's weren't selling books like that. It came from giving speeches. It came from Middle Eastern princes and sheiks.