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Topic: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?
(Read 8005 times)

MrNubbz · « **Reply #56 on:** October 01, 2019, 10:56:05 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on October 01, 2019, 08:56:49 AM

That's why I can't go for Snyder or Alvarez. Snyder was awesome, but Snyder also won two conference titles. Total. He believed in a cupcake-heavy scheduling approach. He's a great coach, but I can't go GOAT there. Barry had his chance. he turned it down to go 39-25 in the twilight of his career with some 7th and 8th place finishes. I appreciate it and everything, but hard to GOAT that.

Saban schedules cupcakes perenially before the Iron Bowl(I mean real Hostess specials),and never comes North after November.Prolly the best coach the last 25 yrs for sure but still doesn't play to the Any Team,Any Time Any Place that Jimmy Johnson embraced

rolltidefan · « **Reply #57 on:** October 01, 2019, 11:47:16 AM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2019, 10:56:05 AM

Saban schedules cupcakes perenially before the Iron Bowl(I mean real Hostess specials),and never comes North after November.Prolly the best coach the last 25 yrs for sure but still doesn't play to the Any Team,Any Time Any Place that Jimmy Johnson embraced

this is such a stupid ass argument. what p5 team travels outside their footprint in nov? aside from maybe nd, and that's mostly because of no conf affiliation.

and bama is one of the few teams that regularly schedules a strong ooc opp, this year not withstanding. what does it matter if we have a cupcake in sept/oct or nov?

and btw, that's sec scheduling that forces that, not bama. bama's schedule finishes with tenn>lsu>msu>au for as long as i can remember (occasional sec game betwen tenn>lsu), and bama and auburn wanted to finish the season playing each other, but typically did so a week before the end of season. sec made rule that you can't have a bye before seccg, so they moved iron bowl back, but didn't fill in gap between the msu(or lsu, sometimes swapped) and iron bowl. and we can't have 2 byes most years (again, this year not withstanding) and we're not going to wait until last game for a bye, so we have to schedule a non-conf game there.

FearlessF · « **Reply #58 on:** October 01, 2019, 11:59:14 AM »

no one needs to defend their scheduling to me

it's the committee that you need to impress

no coach in their right mind schedules a loss

Cincydawg · « **Reply #59 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:03:12 PM »

Yeah, nobody travels in November anywhere. Bama has WCU the week before Auburn. I suspect the AD is mostly responsible for scheduling at most places, and it's all done years in advance of course.

No Big Ten teams plays OOC games in November, or if they do it's very rare. I don't know anyone who can schedule serious OOC games in November except for the usual rivalry games.

Entropy · « **Reply #60 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:04:47 PM »

Quote from: rolltidefan on September 30, 2019, 03:47:45 PM

this is probably true, but the reciprocal is also probably true.

saban has more resources at bama than all but a few other places could give him. but what he's done with those resources is nothing short of phenomenal. people always say the reason he sends more to nfl than anyone else is because he gets more 4-5 stars than anyone else, which is true. but he also sends those type recruits to nfl at a better rate than any other school, so he does more with the best than anyone else as well.

and the sustained success is remarkable and unprecedented. with this weeks rankings, he now has bama at #1 during a season for 12 straight seasons, and ncaa record.

i'm bias, obviously, but i think saban has a pretty strong case for goat.

having said that, snyder is definitely up there as well, for different reasons. that guy was phenomenal as well, taking probably the worst team in d1 (dead last in win% at time of hire) and turning them respectable, even great for a short while.

urban is hard to judge. there's no arguing he gets results and is a great coach. but there's just something about his short tenures and ready made success at the bigger schools that throws me off. definitely one of the best, though.

spurrier is an all time great, but more in the 10-15 range than 1-3 range. even in last 30 years, he's not the best, imo.

other recent coaches worth mentioning: bowden, paterno, dabo?, patterson (at tcu has done really well and deserves some cred, though not #1 cred), sweatervest, pete carroll, big game bob

those are all valid points as well. I'd probably vote him GOAT, but I'm equally impressed with what others have accomplished.

I'm always puzzled why TO is not mentioned more, yet Bowden and Paterno often come up in these discussions. Not just you, but in general. Probably bias on my part.

rolltidefan · « **Reply #61 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:08:51 PM »

even the ooc rivalry games are within the schools footprint, if not directly withing the state.

usc-clemson
gt - uga
fsu-uf

nd-usc is the only one that really travels out of their immediate area that i can think of, and when it's @ nd, it's almost always in oct, but in socal it's in nov. so even usc doesn't travel north ooc in nov. last time it was played in nov in indiana was 1959.

is there another ooc rivalry that has long travel out of region in nov?

FearlessF · « **Reply #62 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:09:47 PM »

Bowden has all those top 5 finishes in the final poll, Paterno has longevity, those are the only advantages over Doc Tom

Switzer's head to head vs Tom and his small winning percentage lead over Tom are valid.

As with Snyder and some other coaches doing more with less, Tom didn't have the recruiting advantages of Switzer or Bowden or possibly Paterno

rolltidefan · « **Reply #63 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:10:31 PM »

Quote from: Entropy on October 01, 2019, 12:04:47 PM

those are all valid points as well. I'd probably vote him GOAT, but I'm equally impressed with what others have accomplished.

I'm always puzzled why TO is not mentioned more, yet Bowden and Paterno often come up in these discussions. Not just you, but in general. Probably bias on my part.

nah, osborne definitely is in the discussion. my list was not exhaustive.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #64 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:12:36 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2019, 10:56:05 AM

Saban schedules cupcakes perenially before the Iron Bowl(I mean real Hostess specials),and never comes North after November.Prolly the best coach the last 25 yrs for sure but still doesn't play to the Any Team,Any Time Any Place that Jimmy Johnson embraced

From 1995-2000, KSU played only Temple from the Big 6 conferences.

After his first year, here is every non-Temple P6 team his squad faced:
1991: Washington, balanced by double FCS
1993: Minnesota
1994: Minnesota
2000: USC
2001: USC
2002: USC (with double FCS)
2003: Cal (double FCS)
left in 2005

He got better in the second stint, but yeah, dude didn’t want to schedule up. That’s what you do at a low-end school, but that’s much different than the SEC-SoCon challenge.

rolltidefan · « **Reply #65 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:13:02 PM »

Quote from: FearlessF on October 01, 2019, 12:09:47 PM

Bowden has all those top 5 finishes in the final poll, Paterno has longevity, those are the only advantages over Doc Tom

Switzer's head to head vs Tom and his small winning percentage lead over Tom are valid.

As with Snyder and some other coaches doing more with less, Tom didn't have the recruiting advantages of Switzer or Bowden or possibly Paterno

osborne was hc for 24 years at braska. paterno has longevity over almost everyone, but long tenure should be a knock on osborne.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #66 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:14:03 PM »

These days, a part of scheduling is to create the best chance to make the FF (for teams with a shot down the road). You need to balance off days and pastries while appearing to play some tough programs as well OOC.

UGA has scheduled three prominent P5 programs in 2026-2027 OOC, I'm not sure that is a great idea. I think two is a good number.

(Maybe GaTech shouldn't be considered "prominent" ...)

bayareabadger · « **Reply #67 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:19:29 PM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on October 01, 2019, 10:47:29 AM

I don't think it's a coincidence that since Richt left Gawja that they are knocking on the door every year.Just like Cooper in Columbus - they were not the guys to get it done.IMO both should have been dismissed at least 5 yrs before they were.They were too over paid to be "Meh"

Carr too...

(in all honesty, I don’t think Richt was the guy to get it done, but that just means he was not a top 5 percentile coach. He was somewhere that felt winning 74 percent of your games across five years is meh, despite dubious historical precedent for that. If anything, the timing was pretty good to dismiss him. They waited until the exact guy they wanted was there. Didn’t even have to backslide)

bayareabadger · « **Reply #68 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:21:23 PM »

Quote from: Cincydawg on October 01, 2019, 12:14:03 PM

These days, a part of scheduling is to create the best chance to make the FF (for teams with a shot down the road). You need to balance off days and pastries while appearing to play some tough programs as well OOC.

UGA has scheduled three prominent P5 programs in 2026-2027 OOC, I'm not sure that is a great idea. I think two is a good number.

(Maybe GaTech shouldn't be considered "prominent" ...)

Not now at least. I wonder where Tech goes. I’m guessing they end up where they usually do, solid, occasionally pretty feisty.

Their consistency in some senses has been remarkable. They’re sometimes inconsistent, but in a strangely consistent way.

Cincydawg · « **Reply #69 on:** October 01, 2019, 12:22:37 PM »

Tech can't recruit, so they need some kind of gimmicky offense. Fortunately they have given that up, they were annoying to play.

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Topic: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

MrNubbz

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

rolltidefan

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

FearlessF

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

Cincydawg

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

Entropy

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

rolltidefan

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

FearlessF

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

rolltidefan

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

bayareabadger

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

rolltidefan

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

Cincydawg

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

bayareabadger

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

bayareabadger

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?

Cincydawg

Re: GOAT Cfb Coach: Urban or Saint Nick?