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Topic: Game day SOC.

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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #336 on: October 07, 2020, 11:45:17 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on October 07, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
I left actual stats I didn't splice in my opinion.So let me get this right NIU won 4 MAC championships but Toledo was better because they under achieved and it fits  your narrative that's really it.CMU won the MAC 3x but Toledo was better for the same reasons, even though 3 years leading up to Campells hire they had losing records.And in 8 yrs didn't have a NFL Draft Pick 3 of those during MC's tenure - and  that tells you Toledo was loaded?
Lee Harvey you mad man - I want to party with you
See, this is the thing, you're misreading both me and my narrative.

NIU won three conference titles in this period. In the MC era, NIU was much better in Years 1 and 2. Ball State was not much better, they were maybe even. But Ball State's quarterback staged game-winning drives to snatch victory twice. Toledo probably should've got one of those. And they were def better in 2013 than a 5-7 Akron team the prevented them from going to a bowl. 

In 2014, they were good enough to be right there with an NIU team that was probably equivalently talented (I should be nicer there, they had QB issues that night). In 2015, they were good enough to drop the MAC champs on the road by 16 points, but couldn't win at home against teams that lost 5 and 6 games to get to the title game. He built a good program. But he also was a little short in a few of those years. They just left a lil something on the table. (Bolded because that's the narrative)

I don't know why you mentioned CMU other than to obfuscate. Their last title was when Campbell wasn't even a coordinator. The draft part is interesting, but it's the MAC. Not that many kids get drafted. Those NIU teams didn't have many picks. Some of those CMU teams had like 2-3. 
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #337 on: October 07, 2020, 11:47:21 PM »
He'd probably do best at a school where the "rivalry game" was no longer played; Nebraska, Texas A&M, Pitt, W Virginia, etc. Take that blemish out of the equation. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #338 on: October 08, 2020, 12:13:51 AM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on October 07, 2020, 11:45:17 PM
See, this is the thing, you're misreading both me and my narrative.No I'm not you mentioned 3 pages back and I quote " I know his Toledo time was successful but probably not where it should've been given the talent at hand".At no time did Toledo have talent at hand over CMU or NUI or even Miami or BG.I don't need dissertations on what you say/think should have happened or why it didn't.It was a little short because the Talent of afore mentioned squads.Coaches coached,players played and games were held and by that collective compilation I drew my conclusions.Records/stats/standings count


I don't know why you mentioned CMU other than to obfuscate. Because they won the Title 3x - you not I falsly protracted Toledo had this plethora of talent.You can can cherry pick and henpeck bits and slices of this/that but it changes nothing.But for what ever reason you felt the need to  correct someone who evidently held a different view than yours that happened to be correct.Making a point is one thing proliferating bombast for reasons unkown are another - Good Night
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 12:23:20 AM by MrNubbz »
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #339 on: October 08, 2020, 12:25:19 AM »
If you're writing the sentence "At no time did Toledo have talent at hand over CMU" you're making things up to support some narrative you want. And if you're telling me a team whose last title was in 2009 has a place in a discussion of a coach who coached from 2012-2015, then we're just being silly. 

Do you watch a ton of MAC football? Like actually? 
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #340 on: October 08, 2020, 07:03:42 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2020, 11:47:21 PM
He'd probably do best at a school where the "rivalry game" was no longer played; Nebraska, Texas A&M, Pitt, W Virginia, etc. Take that blemish out of the equation.
That seems like a sorta micro way to judge a coach. I mean, he did manage to sweep Bowling Green, even when the Falcons won a couple conference titles.
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MrNubbz

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #341 on: October 08, 2020, 07:26:17 AM »
Is the concept of accepting the results of conference play(repeatedly) a little too complex for you?.Yes,yes we'll just ignore all of that and harken back to the 2-3 paragraphs tossed out citing you've watched a few games and even mentioned some plays.Further more we'll ignore NIUs 4/CMUs3/Miami & BGs 2 conferences titles in favor of TU's 1 over that 15 yr run - because you fookin' say so.And your word is platinum at all inter-Galactic Councils.Oh and just a reminder Toledo's lone Title over that time span was in 2017 2 yrs after MCs exit.Further cementing your idiom "I know his Toledo time was successful but probably not where it should've been given the talent at hand".Slammed the door shut on another case there Deputy Fife
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #342 on: October 08, 2020, 08:48:41 AM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on October 08, 2020, 07:26:17 AM
Is the concept of accepting the results of conference play(repeatedly) a little too complex for you?.Yes,yes we'll just ignore all of that and harken back to the 2-3 paragraphs tossed out citing you've watched a few games and even mentioned some plays.Further more we'll ignore NIUs 4/CMUs3/Miami & BGs 2 conferences titles in favor of TU's 1 over that 15 yr run - because you fookin' say so.And your word is platinum at all inter-Galactic Councils.Oh and just a reminder Toledo's lone Title over that time span was in 2017 2 yrs after MCs exit.Further cementing your idiom "I know his Toledo time was successful but probably not where it should've been given the talent at hand".Slammed the door shut on another case there Deputy Fife
This is the weirdest way to spackle over things you don't know.

I accept the results of conference play show me who the best teams are. I also know that being the best team isn't directly correlated to having the best talent. Sometimes teams with good talent underperform by a game or so every year.

If you want to pretend otherwise, that's fine. But it's silly. If you're gonna get heated and erratic, fine. I'll revise my word (you said it went intergalactic, not I): "Matt Campbell is without failing. He is the greatest. Because Dan LeFevour was a beast when Campbell was an OL coach at BG is clear and strong evidence why Campbell simply couldn't be even with Ball State his first two years or win a MAC title like Michael Haywood or Dave Doeren"
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CatsbyAZ

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #343 on: October 08, 2020, 09:39:51 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on October 07, 2020, 03:26:07 PM
I had Urban Meyer pegged at BG and Utah as a coach that was destined for great things. Saban's rise was a little before my time, so I am 1 for 1 so far identifying the next elite coach.

I don't see one out there at the moment. Others latch onto a trendy name; Lincoln Riley, Matt Campbell, Tom Herman, etc. As though elite coaches just grow on trees.

Here's the previously referenced article on how all the fawning over Lincoln Riley might be due to end - rest of Big 12 is catching up with Sooners.

"OU suffered fourth-quarter meltdowns in each of its first two Big 12 Conference games, and thus started 0-2 in Big 12 play for the first time since 1998.

If the Sooners are going to avoid their first 1-3 start since 1965, they’re going to have to tackle much better against Texas.

“We’ve just got to all do a better job of doing what we do,” Riley said, “and I think that’s the bottom line.”


https://twitter.com/max_olson/status/1312072817614168066
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #344 on: October 08, 2020, 09:54:46 AM »
Quote from: CatsbyAZ on October 08, 2020, 09:39:51 AM
Here's the previously referenced article on how all the fawning over Lincoln Riley might be due to end - rest of Big 12 is catching up with Sooners.

"OU suffered fourth-quarter meltdowns in each of its first two Big 12 Conference games, and thus started 0-2 in Big 12 play for the first time since 1998.

If the Sooners are going to avoid their first 1-3 start since 1965, they’re going to have to tackle much better against Texas.

“We’ve just got to all do a better job of doing what we do,” Riley said, “and I think that’s the bottom line.”


https://twitter.com/max_olson/status/1312072817614168066

Two things
1. Remember who OU was known a ton for defense in the early 2000s? Crazy how much that changed.
2. Brutus kinda said he doesn't see a next elite coach. Considering there's like twoish now, and correctly picking them out seems like a once or twice a decade thing, perhaps it just makes sense to assume no one is actually going to be that, many more will be the win 10 games at a blue blood type and leave it at that. Like we just assume the hype doesn't cover all the way up to "elite" since almost no one is actually at that place.

(Also, if the Big 12 is catching up to OU, it's about damn time. They won 5 in a row and 12 of he past 18)
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #345 on: October 08, 2020, 11:33:50 AM »

Gotta love the sMACk talk. 
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FearlessF

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #346 on: October 08, 2020, 11:52:48 AM »
many teams were previously known for good solid defense

not many these days
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #347 on: October 08, 2020, 12:54:43 PM »
Big 12 teams aren't catching up to OU's talent or coaching, but those high "twelving" scores do lend to the best team not always winning.  We all know this.


Even when Florida sucked, we had 1st round defenders getting drafted - something UM pointed out that OU and Texas have lacked lately.  
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utee94

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #348 on: October 08, 2020, 04:12:04 PM »
Texas arguably has more talent than OU this year.  But Texas is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to coaching.

Both teams have had atrocious defenses for decades.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Game day SOC.
« Reply #349 on: October 08, 2020, 04:28:19 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on October 08, 2020, 04:12:04 PM
Texas arguably has more talent than OU this year.  But Texas is at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to coaching.

Both teams have had atrocious defenses for decades.
Oh lord, I'm not that old. 

Oklahoma is about four or five years removed from just outside the top 25-level. You have to go back to 2010-2011 for them being top 15 or 10ish. 

Texas is actually only a couple years removed from some top-15 quality defenses. Herman and Strong each had one. Mack had one top-20 level one in 2011 and then top 10 in 2009. They have been both inconsistent year to year and great at pairing the good defenses with bad offenses. 
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