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Topic: Establishing an OOC Rivalry

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #266 on: July 08, 2020, 12:22:55 PM »
They are big enough names to draw in fans and that is the concern for the AD. 
I was considering the road game aspect - as those are the 2 most talented HS areas in the entire country.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #267 on: July 08, 2020, 12:23:36 PM »
Come on down to the Swamp in September, guys.  The water's fine (it's in the air)!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #268 on: July 08, 2020, 12:41:51 PM »
I was considering the road game aspect - as those are the 2 most talented HS areas in the entire country.
I was considering that as well in addition to large amounts of tOSU alums living in those areas.  

I think an AD's schedule priorities should involve all of those things:
  • Alumni relations, playing where a lot of your alumni live
  • Recruiting, playing where a lot of recruits live
  • Filling your own stadium, playing opponents that get your fan's attention

I think that Miami, FL and UCLA both fill all three of those pretty well for Ohio State.  


bayareabadger

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #269 on: July 08, 2020, 12:45:31 PM »
UW's top OOC opponents by games played, discounting teams that don't exist anymore or are now FCS. 
ND 16 times
NIU 13 times
UCLA 11 
UNLV 10
Hawaii/USC/ISU 7

So ND or nothing for UW. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #270 on: July 08, 2020, 12:47:00 PM »
Come on down to the Swamp in September, guys.  The water's fine (it's in the air)!
Florida would honestly be a great OOC series for Ohio State in both Football and Basketball.  There is history in both with the NC games and frequently competing with each other and/or helping each other indirectly (ie, tOSU's win over ASU in the 1997 Rose Bowl making UF's first NC possible).  

This is getting WAY OT, but I've said before that if I were tOSU's AD I would want to fill in the basketball OOC with mostly schools like Ohio State that are reasonably good at both football and basketball.  I think it makes sense because even most tOSU basketball fans are "football first" type fans.  They know enough basketball to know that Kansas, UNC, and Kentucky are bluebloods but after that I think they might rather play Bama or Florida than Kansas State or Missouri even if KSU/Mizzou are better at basketball simply because Bama/Florida have a football connection.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #271 on: July 08, 2020, 01:22:15 PM »
Florida's OOC opponents, by number of games:
65 FSU
56 Miami
39 GA Tech (former SEC)
21 Tulane (former SEC)
18 Maryland?!?
15 Stetson, of course
14 N.C. State
14 Florida Southern (hey, my mom went there!)
13 Mercer
13 Clemson
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

SFBadger96

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #272 on: July 08, 2020, 04:15:32 PM »
Tennessee could be another good one for Wisconsin. It's within driving distance (sort of), it's recent history has made it, perhaps, more likely that it would sign up for home-and-homes with Wisconsin. It's got a cool stadium in a great location. And it's a program that should be on the rise back to some semblance of its former self.

I would, of course, love a series with Notre Dame, but it's not all that interesting from an away game perspective. Another trip in the Midwest near Chicago? Meh. It's not as though South Bend is the end-all-be-all of college towns. Notre Dame has a gorgeous campus, but for alumni there isn't much about South Bend that's attractive as a destination (as opposed to Raleigh, Berkeley, Pasadena, Seattle, Austin, Knoxville, or Atlanta/Athens).

Cincydawg

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #273 on: July 08, 2020, 04:19:08 PM »
Wisconsin-Tennessee would be fun, I'd watch.  

My make believe matchups (in a single year) of some programs:

Ohio State - USC
Wisconsin - Tennessee
Penn State - Alabama
Michigan - Florida 
Rutgers - Georgia
Maryland - Ole Miss
NW - Vandy
Notre Dame - Texas
Clemson - Oklahoma

Seems fair to me.

Cincydawg

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #274 on: July 09, 2020, 08:09:12 AM »
Back on point, I don't know that it is possible to "create" an OOC rivalry where there has been none, even if proximity is not an issue.  And I don't know that it would be desirable even if possible.

Imagine Ohio State started playing say Clemson or Alabama almost annually, that would also mean neither would play much of anyone else OOC annually.  I'd rather see some diversity myself.  I prefer to see UGA play Texas on occasion than Clemson 5 years out of 10.

And of course OSU already plays 9 conference games, so they will tend to reserve two slots for pumpkins and one for a name brand program OOC.

bamajoe

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #275 on: July 09, 2020, 09:09:19 AM »
Did you know Alabama and Penn State have played 15 times? I am older than most people here and one of my first television football memories was a Liberty Bowl game in Philadelphia between Penn State and Alabama in around 1958. I think Penn won something like 10-3. I don't remember much about the game except it was frigidly cold.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #276 on: July 09, 2020, 11:59:43 AM »
Did you know Alabama and Penn State have played 15 times? I am older than most people here and one of my first television football memories was a Liberty Bowl game in Philadelphia between Penn State and Alabama in around 1958. I think Penn won something like 10-3. I don't remember much about the game except it was frigidly cold.
I was curious so I looked it up.  That game appears to have been the 1959 Liberty Bowl played on December 19, 1959 in Philly and Penn State won 7-0.  Neither team appears to have been all that good in 1959.  Bama finished fourth in the SEC at 4-1-2 behind Georgia, Ole Miss, and LSU.  Interestingly, the SEC appears not to have been very good in general as the Champion (UGA) got blown out by a mediocre USCe team that lost four games (UNC, Clemson, Miami, FL, and Wake).  The SEC's second and third place teams (Ole Miss and LSU) played each other in a rematch in the Sugar Bowl.  LSU won the regular season game (in Mississippi) and Ole Miss won the Sugar Bowl so the SEC's top-4 teams went 1-3 in bowls and the only winner beat another SEC team.  

The penultimate AP Poll (11/30 before bowls and before some teams had finished the regular season) was:
  • 9-0 Syracuse
  • 9-1 Ole Miss
  • 9-1 LSU
  • 9-1 Texas
  • 9-1 Georgia
  • 7-2 Wisconsin
  • 8-2 TCU
  • 9-1 Washington
  • 8-2 Arkansas
  • 8-2 Clemson
  • 7-1-2 Bama
  • 5-3-1 Illinois
  • 8-2 USC
  • 8-2 Penn State

Of the top-14 only Syracuse played again before the final poll which was still pre-bowl back then.  Syracuse beat #17 UCLA in California.  Then in the bowls:
  • Syracuse beat #4 Texas in the Cotton Bowl
  • Mississippi beat #3 LSU in the Sugar Bowl
  • LSU lost to #2 Ole Miss in the Sugar Bowl
  • Texas lost to #1 Syracuse in the Cotton Bowl
  • Georgia beat #20 Mizzou in the Orange Bowl
  • Wisconsin lost to #8 Washington in the Rose Bowl
  • TCU lost to #10 Clemson in the Bluebonnet Bowl (Houston)
  • Washington beat #6 Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl
  • Arkansas beat nr GaTech in the Gator Bowl
  • Clemson beat #7 TCU in the Bleubonnet Bowl
  • Bama lost to #14 Penn State in the Liberty Bowl
  • Illinois did not play
  • USC did not play
  • Penn State beat #11 Bama in the Liberty Bowl

If there had been a post-bowl AP Poll the top-10 probably would have been:
  • 11-0 Syracuse
  • 10-1 Ole Miss
  • 10-1 Georgia
  • 10-1 Washington
  • 9-2 Clemson
  • 9-2 LSU
  • 9-2 Texas
  • 9-2 Arkansas
  • 9-2 Penn State
  • 8-2 USC


Anyway back to Bama/Penn State, here is the entire series:
  • #14 Penn State beat #11 Bama 7-0 in the Liberty Bowl in the 1959 season
  • #4 Bama beat #8 Penn State 13-6 in the Sugar Bowl in the 1975 season
  • #2 Bama beat #1 Penn State 14-7 in the Sugar Bowl in the 1978 season
  • #6 Bama beat #5 Penn State 31-16 on November 14, 1981 in Happy Valley
  • #4 Bama beat #3 Penn State 42-21 on October 9, 1982 in Birmingham
  • nr Penn State beat #3 Bama 34-28 on October 8, 1983 in Happy Valley.  This was a particularly bad loss for Bama as they came into the game undefeated and #3 while PSU was 2-3 having already lost to Nebraska, Cincy, and Iowa and only having beaten lowly Temple and Rutgers.  
  • nr Bama beat #11 Penn State 6-0 on October 13, 1984 in Tuscaloosa
  • #8 Penn State beat #10 Bama 19-17 on October 12, 1985 in Happy Valley
  • #6 Penn State beat #2 Bama 23-3 on October 25, 1986 in Tuscaloosa
  • #19 Bama beat #11 Penn State 24-13 on September 12, 1987 in Happy Valley
  • nr Bama beat nr Penn State 8-3 on October 22, 1988 in Birmingham
  • #6 Bama beat #14 Penn State 17-16 on October 28, 1989 in Happy Valley
  • nr Penn State beat nr Bama 9-0 on October 27, 1990 in Tuscaloosa
  • #1 Bama beat #18 Penn State 24-3 on September 11, 2010 in Happy Valley
  • #3 Bama beat #23 Penn State 27-11 on September 10, 2011 in Tuscaloosa


Cincydawg

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #277 on: July 09, 2020, 12:11:30 PM »
The Dawg team was led by a QB named Fran Tarkenton.

He passed for 736 yards that season.

Air raid offense.

The allowed 30 points to South Carolina that year, and the next largest total was 14 to Georgia Tech.



Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #278 on: July 09, 2020, 01:50:59 PM »
The same analysis for Ohio State:

  • Pittsburgh, 25 games, 19-5-1 (NOTE, last game was in 1996 and Pitt's last win was in 1952)
  • USC, 24 games, 10-13-1 (NOTE, eight of the 24 meetings were Bowl games, seven Rose Bowls 55, 69, 73, 74, 75, 80, 85 and the recent Cotton Bowl)  Another note, the Buckeyes were 8-5-1 in the first 14 meetings (through the 1969 #1 v #2 RoseBowl) then lost eight of nine including seven in a row before the recent Cotton Bowl win. 
  • Ohio Wesleyan, 15 games, 15-0 (NOTE, last game was in 1932)
  • Chicago, 14 games, 10-2-2 (NOTE, former conference member, last game was in 1939 when they were still in the league)
  • Mizzou, 12 games, 10-1-1
  • Washington, 12 games, 9-3
  • Oregon, 9 games, 9-0
  • SMU, 9 games, 7-1-1 (NOTE, last game was in 1978)
  • UCLA, 9 games, 4-4-1
  • tie (WSU, Oberlin, Cal, Cincy, 8 games each, 8-0 against WSU and Cincy, 7-1 against Cal, 5-2-1 against Oberlin last in 1922

Pitt isn't an equal. 

USC, Washington, Oregon, UCLA, WSU, and Cal are distant PAC teams where playing occasionally makes sense but not more than that. 

Ohio Wesleyan, Chicago, SMU, and Oberlin are relics. 

Mizzou isn't an equal and while it might make sense to play them occasionally anything more than that would not be beneficial to Ohio State. 


Cincy isn't an equal and playing them frequently would not benefit Ohio State. 


Ohio State is 15-2 against Cincinnati, not 8-0. 


http://www.winsipedia.com/games/ohio-state/vs/cincinnati
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Establishing an OOC Rivalry
« Reply #279 on: July 09, 2020, 04:12:48 PM »
Ohio State is 15-2 against Cincinnati, not 8-0.
http://www.winsipedia.com/games/ohio-state/vs/cincinnati
I used stassen which has a shortcoming in that their data only includes teams that they consider "major" at the time.  Winsipedia is new to me but the games that they include that stassen excluded are:
  • tOSU 45, Cincy 7 on 10/26/1912 in Columbus
  • tOSU 11, Cincy 6 on 11/30/1911 in Columbus
  • tOSU 23, Cincy 0 on 10/8/1910 in Columbus
  • tOSU 29, Cincy 0 on 10/13/1900 in Cincy
  • Cincy 24, tOSU 0 on 11/13/1897 in Cincy
  • Cincy 8, tOSU 6 on 10/10/1896 in Cincy
  • tOSU 4, Cincy 0 on 11/9/1895 in Cincy
  • tOSU 6, Cincy 4 on 11/17/1894 in Cincy
  • tOSU 32, Cincy 0 on 11/18/1893 in Columbus

I don't think this changes things in a meaningful way as the seven additional games were all at least 108 years ago.  I think that in thinking about rivalries that anybody alive today cares about you could probably limit it to ~50 years or less.  


 

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