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Topic: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?

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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #84 on: May 22, 2023, 05:06:57 PM »
Apple was around ~before DOS of course, in a rudimentary stage.  I saw an Apple 1 once, and used a II+ at work for a while.  It had Visicalc on it that was just incredible.  I dimly recall when the Macs came out they grabbed a "Subaru-like" following of folks claiming they were much easier to use.  I migrated back and forth as the company changed platforms.  I then found Symphony, which was Lotus 1-2-3-4-5 in effect and used that for a long time.  Then we were forced into using Word and Excel and some email thing.

As you note, the appeal of the hardware was more the software it came with.  I use a Dell, and have for ages, my wife has an Apple MacBook because she thought it was easier to use (and then took a course to learn how to use it).  

It is interesting to contemplate near duopolies.  I'll name another almost one, in disposable diapers, with KC and P&G, though private lables still exist, I think.  There is a ton of $$$ in diapers.  


CatsbyAZ

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #85 on: May 22, 2023, 05:31:41 PM »
Sigh.
.
All I've said is that on a long-enough timeline, capitalism ends in monopoly.

This doesn’t account for advancement of technology. We would all still be in Walmart’s 90s world had Amazon not beat them at their own game with the advent of the internet. 

Just one example, but Capitalism’s inevitable monopolies also face equivalently inevitable declines.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #86 on: May 22, 2023, 06:56:44 PM »
This doesn’t account for advancement of technology. We would all still be in Walmart’s 90s world had Amazon not beat them at their own game with the advent of the internet.

Just one example, but Capitalism’s inevitable monopolies also face equivalently inevitable declines.
And yet another example of one of the reasons monopolies fail... Usually competitive threats from outside their core competency are dismissed and ignored... And then they fail to respond until it's too late. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #87 on: May 22, 2023, 08:43:54 PM »
I would also state one thing...

The guy here who is most scared of monopolies that will overcharge for substandard product because of a lack of competition...

...happens to work for a monopoly that its detractors say overcharges for substandard product, and have been suggesting for decades that introducing competition--even if it remains publicly-funded competition--into that market would help with both.

A free public education overcharges?  
Mkay.
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bayareabadger

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #88 on: May 23, 2023, 12:01:40 AM »
Downplay? Like others, I like nice things. We discuss here. Much of our discussions would be gone if we didn't talk about travel, cars, places to live, etc.

If not talking about those things is downplay, well, I'm not playing. And this board is probably toast.
To stretch this out a little bit, some of what you wrote points to an element of being rich that this poll isn’t considering.

you, and a lot of us, like nice things. Many of us have nice things. Based on some of the logic we have above, if you like canned tuna and grocery store bread instead of nice food and playing chess in the park instead of driving a boat, you would be closer to being rich.

but instead you forgo some element of being “rich” to have an enjoying nice things. Which in part is the value of being rich. So, I would argue, the ability to comfortably have certain nice things is a hallmark of being some degree of rich. Maybe not extremely rich, but a certain degree of rich.

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2023, 06:46:03 AM »
A free public education overcharges? 
Mkay.
Have you never gotten a property tax bill?

Public education is NOT free.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #90 on: May 23, 2023, 06:48:04 AM »
To stretch this out a little bit, some of what you wrote points to an element of being rich that this poll isn’t considering.

you, and a lot of us, like nice things. Many of us have nice things. Based on some of the logic we have above, if you like canned tuna and grocery store bread instead of nice food and playing chess in the park instead of driving a boat, you would be closer to being rich.

but instead you forgo some element of being “rich” to have an enjoying nice things. Which in part is the value of being rich. So, I would argue, the ability to comfortably have certain nice things is a hallmark of being some degree of rich. Maybe not extremely rich, but a certain degree of rich.
Those are good points.

I do love canned tuna (for real).
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #91 on: May 23, 2023, 08:48:55 AM »
I was musing again about the monopolies back in the day, steel, rail, shipping, oil, probably something else, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Hill, Rockefeller ... those guys knew what they were doing buying up any competitors, or undercutting pricing.  Could something like that happen today?  There is a decent argument above that it couldn't because of information and indirect competition.

Some guys today do achieve incredible levels of wealth obviously well above our $5 million threshhold.  Some of them are in the "news" often, I'm sure stay out of the news intentionally and we don't hear much about them.  I'd be one of them.

James J. Hill: Net Worth, Railroads, Robber Baron, Facts (american-rails.com)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2023, 09:14:00 AM by Cincydawg »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2023, 09:33:28 AM »
A free public education overcharges? 
Mkay.
It's free? I wasn't aware you were not taking a salary... 

Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #93 on: May 23, 2023, 09:40:56 AM »
So, what about banking?  Sans the FTC, would banking over time morph into one "national bank"?

I'd guess the majors might condense into one, but we'd still have small local banks if that major priced themselves out of competitiveness.  And we'd have credit unions.  I think.

847badgerfan

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #94 on: May 23, 2023, 10:12:35 AM »
I don't see credit unions going away. We'd need @Honestbuckeye to weigh in on the rest of the dynamics.
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Cincydawg

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #95 on: May 23, 2023, 10:17:42 AM »
Yeah, I'm obviously trying to think of some industry that would tend to monopoly.  Amazon strikes me as a monopoly in one sense, but we all buy stuff from other retail outlets, so they can't raise their prices without competition.  

Would Uber buy Lyft and become one?  We still have taxis here and they are cheaper than Uber from the airport.

bayareabadger

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #96 on: May 23, 2023, 10:21:32 AM »
Yeah, I'm obviously trying to think of some industry that would tend to monopoly.  Amazon strikes me as a monopoly in one sense, but we all buy stuff from other retail outlets, so they can't raise their prices without competition. 

Would Uber buy Lyft and become one?  We still have taxis here and they are cheaper than Uber from the airport.
I think it’s harder and harder to have a true monopoly, but probably much easier to have levels of vertical integration that foster anti-competitive situations.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: Critical Issue: What is "rich"?
« Reply #97 on: May 23, 2023, 10:22:49 AM »
I don't see credit unions going away. We'd need @Honestbuckeye to weigh in on the rest of the dynamics.
I do see much more bank consolidation on the horizon.  Regulatory costs are pricing small and regional banks out.  Without scale, it is just a question of time. 

Right now, deposits are flowing out of banks to places where people can earn more in their cash- being paid by entities that are not nearly as regulated.  This flow out represents banks low cost if funds, that would normally allow banks to lend at competitive rates, has forced banks to intentionally slow lending through pricing.  The huge banks gain an even bigger advantage as they typically have much more liquidity and fee based income from many sources.

Credit Unions will be fine- in fact will benefit as they are not subject to anywhere near the regulatory rules and burdens that banks are- as well as the tax burden.
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