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Topic: Coaching changes

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Cincydawg

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #154 on: November 02, 2021, 08:54:52 AM »
Does hiring a young HC make a difference to recruits?  I know having a great sales guy in the area is important.

Maybe a 40 year old coach resonates better than a 60 year old?  I dunno.

Winning makes a difference.

Cincydawg

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #155 on: November 02, 2021, 09:23:58 AM »
Dan Mullen's Florida Gators slammed by anonymous SEC assistants: 'They play with zero discipline' (247sports.com)
Dan Mullen's Florida Gators slammed by anonymous SEC assistants: 'They play with zero discipline' (247sports.com)

MrNubbz

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #156 on: November 02, 2021, 09:28:18 AM »
Does hiring a young HC make a difference to recruits?  I know having a great sales guy in the area is important.

Maybe a 40 year old coach resonates better than a 60 year old?  I dunno.

Winning makes a difference.
Saban just turned 70 didn't he?URBz was no spring chicken.How old is Belichick? I liked Mullen also not sure why he's struggling,assistant coaching definitely is a factor.I'd certainly give him one more year
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FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #157 on: November 02, 2021, 09:30:14 AM »
the head coach just needs to be respected by the young kids and have a history of winning and putting guys in the NFL

probably need some younger assistants to do the recruiting
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Cincydawg

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #158 on: November 02, 2021, 09:31:47 AM »
I was speaking of hiring a new coach, not one with an established record like Saban.  Maybe one should favor a younger fellow.  The HC is the "face" of the team in many ways with recruits.  Maybe it doesn't make a difference.

FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #159 on: November 02, 2021, 09:34:21 AM »
you might not want the guy on the right as the face of your team, but he's sniffing the top 10 in the rankings

 Mike Gundy: Oklahoma State coach apologises for OAN shirt
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ELA

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #160 on: November 02, 2021, 12:59:51 PM »

MikeDeTiger

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #161 on: November 02, 2021, 06:14:35 PM »
Sumlin caught lightning in a bottle. He used recruits from Mike Sherman, namely on the offensive line, QB, and WR. He did manage to keep the momentum up through 2015 but some how managed to run off two legit 5* QB in the same season. Remember, Kyler Murray started as an Aggie. First Kyle Allen left, and then Kyler left despite being the only legit QB and guaranteed starter on the team.

Sumlin really was ok through 2015/2016. He lucked out getting Trevor Knight onboard in 2016 and we played pretty well through the middle f the season. But then things just fell apart in the 2nd half of the season, just like the year before and the year before that.

Jimbo has built this team from the inside out. He has built a better team with worse talent than we had with Sumlin. His teams have finished strong. 

Sumlin lucked out and got a gig with Arizona, I think he coasted another two years.

Bear in mind I'm not arguing that Jimbo is trash.  Only that I don't see a reality that matches his hype, of which he has a ton.  Going forward will tell the tale as always, but I do note coming in the results haven't been much different from the last guy.

And I admit it matters to me that he tanked FSU.  Much like Urban with Florida, they didn't leave those teams in great shape.  

FearlessF

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #162 on: November 02, 2021, 07:52:04 PM »
urban tanked Florida?
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Gigem

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #163 on: November 02, 2021, 09:46:22 PM »
Bear in mind I'm not arguing that Jimbo is trash.  Only that I don't see a reality that matches his hype, of which he has a ton.  Going forward will tell the tale as always, but I do note coming in the results haven't been much different from the last guy.

And I admit it matters to me that he tanked FSU.  Much like Urban with Florida, they didn't leave those teams in great shape. 
When Jimbo took over for Bowden FSU was in the dumps. He took them to a very high level, obviously winning the BCS championship. He brought them back into big time football. I don’t know what happened in 2017 except they started the season very highly ranked and lost their highly rated QB in the first matchup with Bama. After that it seemed like the team just kinda fell apart. 

But to say that Jimbo is responsible for the downfall of FSU is utter bs. That responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Taggert and the other coaches who followed. I get having a recruiting drop off but it was reported in the media that one of the reasons why Fisher left is he felt he wasn’t being supported by the AD in the facilities race. He was constantly pushing for better facilities, and going to war with the university over them. 

Lots and lots of coaches come in to programs and it’s the same old story. Previous coach left the cupboard bare, lack of conditioning, bad strength coach.  

They did it to Slocum when Fran ran the program slap into the ground, they did it to Mack Brown, Urban, on and on. But the thing is that hardly any of these coaches had as bad of records/games and just utter incompetence as Fran/strong/Taggart. Or Hoke, Zook.  Take your pick. The dumb penalties, busted plays, lack of awareness, getting the coin toss wrong. This is your tattle tell of a bad staff/coaching. No matter the talent, you can see it just by how a team plays. 

it took Jimbo 3 years to get A&M into the top 5, and 4 to Beat Bama. At a place that’s hard to win at. 

ELA

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #164 on: November 02, 2021, 09:58:03 PM »
Andy Staples was having an interesting conversation on his podcast with Ari Wasserman, who was on the OSU beat when urban was there.  Their thought was that It is incorrect to look for coaches who get mid majors or lower power 5 schools to their ceiling. Because all helmet schools can recruit themselves to a certain level. Anyone can walk into Michigan, or Notre Dame, or Florida, and get top 10 to 15 type recruiting classes. But if you are a program that wants to win national championships, you have to be a top three or four team in those classes, and there is little correlation between getting to the ceiling of Mississippi State, and being able to get Florida from 8-4 to 12-0.  That you should be looking at guys, who maybe aren't maxing out at that second level, but do have the characteristics you think could recruit like a top three or four program at a helmet school. They pointed to Mel Tucker and Jeff hafley as guys like that. He said that MSU success is what has put Tucker on the radar, but he thinks his potential to be able to recruit with Alabama or Georgia at a helmet school is what should have done it anyway. He thinks Hefley has that same potential

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #165 on: November 02, 2021, 10:08:43 PM »
urban tanked Florida?
LOL
Florida's recruiting classes:
2007:  1st nationally
2008:  5th
2009:  7th
2010:  1st
Urban leaves.  Florida hiring a DC as a HC tanked the Gators.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #166 on: November 02, 2021, 10:13:44 PM »
Andy Staples was having an interesting conversation on his podcast with Ari Wasserman, who was on the OSU beat when urban was there.  Their thought was that It is incorrect to look for coaches who get mid majors or lower power 5 schools to their ceiling. Because all helmet schools can recruit themselves to a certain level. Anyone can walk into Michigan, or Notre Dame, or Florida, and get top 10 to 15 type recruiting classes. But if you are a program that wants to win national championships, you have to be a top three or four team in those classes, and there is little correlation between getting to the ceiling of Mississippi State, and being able to get Florida from 8-4 to 12-0.  That you should be looking at guys, who maybe aren't maxing out at that second level, but do have the characteristics you think could recruit like a top three or four program at a helmet school. They pointed to Mel Tucker and Jeff hafley as guys like that. He said that MSU success is what has put Tucker on the radar, but he thinks his potential to be able to recruit with Alabama or Georgia at a helmet school is what should have done it anyway. He thinks Hefley has that same potential
Who the HC is is overstated by most ppl.  The HC can hire great coaches and he can hire great recruiters (those young guys mentioned above), but rarely does a hire do both well.  It's often on a sliding scale, it seems.  Okay, I can bring in a bunch of 4 and 5* guys, but I can't coach them up OR I can make All-Americans out of anybody, but my position group is going to have an overall talent level deficit.

A great HC gets that great/lucky combination of the two in the right places and it works.   But then it's extremely temporary as your assistants are hired elsewhere.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Gigem

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Re: Coaching changes
« Reply #167 on: November 02, 2021, 10:25:49 PM »
You still need that special group of 2-3 players that just change the trajectory of the program. Vince did it for Mack, as did Colt/Shipley. Burrow did it for LSU. Johnny Manziel and Mike Evans almost kind of did it for Sumlin. Deshaun Watson did it for Dabo. 

Sometimes teams can have elite talent and just 2-3 busts at QB or other important positions can sink a team. I’m astounded that teams can just play so poorly at the offensive line year after year. You can have the best QB and WR but put them behind a bad offensive line or lose a key player or two and it won’t make any difference. 

 

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