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Topic: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll

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ELA

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Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« on: July 20, 2018, 09:24:17 AM »
They started doing this eight years ago, in conjunction with Big Ten media days, to replace the "official" one the Big Ten stopped doing after the 2010 version.  I believe it's 2 media members per school that vote.

EAST
1.Ohio State (23.5)191.5
2.Michigan State (2)142
3.Penn State (1)141.5
4.Michigan (1.5)140.5
5.Maryland75.5
6.Indiana60
7.Rutgers33
.
WEST
1.Wisconsin (28)196
2.Iowa155
3.Northwestern138
4.Nebraska104
5.Purdue98.5
6.Minnesota64.5
7.Illinois28

14 picked Ohio State to win the CCG, 13 picked Wisconsin, 1 picked Michigan State.

Voting for Preseason Players of the Year

OFFENSE
1.QBTrace McSorleyPenn State66 (14)
2.RBJonathan TaylorWisconsin61 (11)
3.RBJ.K. DobbinsOhio State28 (2)
4.QBBrian LewerkeMichigan State7 (1)
5.QBDwayne HaskinsOhio State3
6.TENoah FantIowa2
7.QBShea PattersonMichigan1
.
DEFENSE
1.DENick BosaOhio State74 (20)
2.DERashan GaryMichigan38 (6)
3.LBT.J. EdwardsWisconsin24
4.LBDevin BushMichigan14 (1)
5.LBPaddy FisherNorthwestern8 (1)
6.LBJoe BachieMichigan State5
7.DEChase WinovichMichigan2
8t.SD'Cota DixonWisconsin1
8t.DTOlive SagapoluWisconsin1
8t.LBKhaleke HudsonMichigan1
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Drew4UTk

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 09:55:47 AM »
this may be the wrong place to offer such a thought as i don't want to hijack this thread.... feel free to move this @ELA if this is the case... 

i'm guessing this is how these folks believe the season will shake out, correct?  this isn't delving into where they think the teams are right now (obviously preseason) in terms of development.  

the reason i offer this is in my mind there are two distinct flavors of polls- there are the "where they're at" and the "where they'll land".  yeah, they're related, but they are also distinct.  

for instance- both Michigan and Ohio State have a leg up on the rest of the division as they meet late- when all cylinders are firing and bugs in the system are manifest as 'brain farts' instead... unless there are significant injuries, which brings the next point into play: schedule of critical opponents and where they land in the teams 'gelling process' of the season...

as example of that- some teams, by nature, don't require the 'gel', such as a Wiscy- they are going to play very close to fundamental pigskin if history tells us anything, making conservative moves and not necessarily relying on highly choreographed activities of so called 'skilled' positions.  the choreography better describes the traditional attack of tOSU or what Purdue seems to be heading toward- they don't bang on all 8 until week 3 or 4- but by then they are a juggernaut.  

ranking 'where we think the are now' early will absolutely benefit certain sets and schemes, and absolutely be detrimental to the more complicated schemes.  they will catch up though... 

i think my point is a weekly ranking 'power poll', if you would, is more valuable especially early... but... how does someone do a pre-season power poll? 

just thinking....  
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 10:15:06 AM »
I've often had the same issue, particularly when it comes to the preseason polls.  I'll hear people say "they are a top 10 team on paper, but with that schedule, I just can't rank them higher than #20."  Then when they go out and lose the games they were expected to lose, they'll still drop.  I will say the CFP Rankings have done a good job of forcing AP voters to rethink that.  That if the #12 team loses a tough road game to #4, if anything, they should move up.  But traditionally it hasn't worked that way.  So if you are going to drop your #10 team to #20 based on you projecting losses for them, you better not punish them when they actually lose the game you already punished them for losing.

As for this poll, my guess is there is no set rules, but if you are going to include a portion of the poll where you ask the voters who will play in, and win, the CCG, my guess is you are asking them to pick where the teams end up, even if not all voters went that way.

I also find it funny with these preseason POTY votes, or preseason all-conference, all-America teams.  Granted I also run one on here for fun, but really, we are just voting on "who among returning players had the best 2017."  Because we frequently get inputs such as John Smith is set for a breakout 2018, but I get why he's not included here.  It really would be fun, although impossible to do preseason player honors based on actual projections, otherwise you are really just revoting on a 2017 postseason list, but removing players who have departed.  You aren't really voting for 2018.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2018, 10:33:13 AM »
much better than the SI preseason poll, which ranks Michigan ahead of Michigan State for some mystifying reason. 
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2018, 10:34:55 AM »
We are guilty of that last part here. Me included. When I see the list come out, I know there are others not on it who are poised for big seasons.

Example..

Jonathan Taylor wasn't on any list last summer, but I knew he was gonna have a big year based on what he did against UW's defense in Fall camp and what the depth looked like.
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 10:35:07 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 20, 2018, 10:33:13 AM
much better than the SI preseason poll, which ranks Michigan ahead of Michigan State for some mystifying reason.
In all fairness, this is a de facto three way tie for second in the division.
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 10:38:43 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2018, 10:34:55 AM
We are guilty of that last part here. Me included. When I see the list come out, I know there are others not on it who are poised for big seasons.

Example..

Jonathan Taylor wasn't on any list last summer, but I knew he was gonna have a big year based on what he did against UW's defense in Fall camp and what the depth looked like.
Was he the #1 going into the fall?  I can't remember.  I know if not, it didn't take long for him to become that.  If so, then simply being the #1 back at Wisconsin should be enough.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 10:39:45 AM »
Quote from: Brutus Buckeye on July 20, 2018, 10:33:13 AM
much better than the SI preseason poll, which ranks Michigan ahead of Michigan State for some mystifying reason.
Nobody gives anyone a chance to unseat UW in the West.
I think people are sleeping on Iowa this year. They have a great chance to win the West. 
Home games are UW (September night game?), NU, UNL and UMd. Road games are PU, UI, Minnie, PSU and IU.
Of those, I think only PSU is the sure loss.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 10:40:44 AM »
Quote from: ELA on July 20, 2018, 10:38:43 AM
Was he the #1 going into the fall?  I can't remember.  I know if not, it didn't take long for him to become that.  If so, then simply being the #1 back at Wisconsin should be enough.

He was #2, for a week. Everyone paying attention knew that he'd be the top dog soon enough.
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ELA

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 10:45:25 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on July 20, 2018, 10:39:45 AM
Nobody gives anyone a chance to unseat UW in the West.
I think people are sleeping on Iowa this year. They have a great chance to win the West.
Home games are UW (September night game?), NU, UNL and UMd. Road games are PU, UI, Minnie, PSU and IU.
Of those, I think only PSU is the sure loss.
Iowa and Northwestern (depending on Thorson's) return, I think are both about what they were last year, which are fringe Top 25 teams.  Certainly good enough to beat Wisconsin, or anyone, but to be better over the course of 9 games?  Eh.
I said in my breakdown, I think Wisconsin is absolutely loaded.  Better than last year.  Should be the best offense in Madison ever.  The issue is the schedule is much more difficult.  They trade out Indiana for Penn State, and their four toughest opponents from 2017 (UM, Iowa, Northwestern, Purdue) all become road games.  
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 10:57:50 AM »
I agree UW is the better team. I just look at the schedules and it lines up nicely for Iowa.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 11:01:00 AM »
Quote from: ELA on July 20, 2018, 10:45:25 AM

 The issue is the schedule is much more difficult.  They trade out Indiana for Penn State, and their four toughest opponents from 2017 (UM, Iowa, Northwestern, Purdue) all become road games.  

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FearlessF

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 11:27:55 AM »
long live the KING
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847badgerfan

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Re: Cleveland.com Preseason Big Ten Poll
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2018, 11:40:21 AM »
He's just pissy because King Barry had a better record (5-7-1) against OSU than probably anyone else but Lloyd (6-7) in the past 25 years. Two of those 7 losses occurred in years 1 and 2, when UW was 1-10 and 5-6. He had a pretty good run when it came to OSU.

Michigan.. not so much. 3-7 on that one.
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