It is apparent to me that
@MaximumSam 's opinion of the tOSU program is VASTLY lower than mine. I've already had a discussion with
@CatsbyAZ within this thread where he asserted that tOSU was something less than top-25. I vehemently disagree.
My view of the tOSU program:
The AP in their all-time rankings says #10.
Looking at league titles, the Buckeyes are #3 behind only PU and IU. If you look a somewhat shorter timeframes the Buckeyes are 4th since MSU started winning titles and tied for 3rd since Tournament expansion in 1985. The programs definitively ahead of them are MSU and Purdue with Indiana also ahead sometimes depending on timeframe. Basically that tells me that Ohio State is one of the strongest Basketball Programs in the B1G.
Ohio State has been one of the top recruiters in the B1G for as long as I've been following it (~25 years). Matta was a CLEAR #1 in the league and one of the very best in the country for his 13 years. Holtmann has been right at the top of the league. They were close to the top before Matta as well. Prior to that I don't know but the Ayers team with JJ had to have been pretty good. Bottom line, Ohio State has proven over ~30 years and multiple coaches that the Program can recruit at a very high level.
Another thing is the "brand" which effectively comes from Football. My opinion is that BB doesn't really help FB but FB DOES help BB. If you look at those AP top programs lists, the top-4 BB schools (UNC, Dook, Kansas, Kentucky) all suck at FB. Carolina is the best of the bunch in FB at #40. On the AP's football list there is a clear top-5 of Bama, tOSU, Oklahoma, ND, and Michigan. Four of those five are also top-25 in BB:
- #10 tOSU
- #13 Michigan
- #16 Notre Dame
- #22 Oklahoma
The fifth is Alabama which has been improving dramatically the last few years in BB. I *THINK* that is a reflection of them leveraging their brand (which comes from Football of course) to build a better program in BB.
You can quibble around the margins. You can say that the AP's list overrates them and they aren't "really" top-10. I don't think there is any reasonable argument that they aren't top-25.
This program should EXPECT to be one of the best in the B1G. That doesn't mean winning the league title every year but it ABSOLUTELY means canning the coach when you go four (19-22), five (19-23), or now six (19-24) years without even being a contender.
This program should EXPECT to make it to the second weekend of the NCAA Tournament often enough that when they do it doesn't feel like a silly novelty for a FB school. That doesn't mean we should expect four straight and five in seven years like we had under Matta (2007-2013) but it does mean that is the goal and getting there every 4-6 years should absolutely be expected.
Max says that BB has changed and things are more random. I direct your attention to this week's top-25. The four biggest blue bloods are Carolina (#3), Dook (#7), Kansas (#8), and Kentucky (#10). Other top-10 teams include UCONN which has been achieving at a blue-blood level for a few dacades (just not quite as long as the top-4), Purdue which is #1 all-time in B1G Championships, and Wisconsin which has been a high achiever since Pat Richter hired Bo Ryan.
It isn't "random" that UCONN, Purdue, Carolina, Wisconsin, Dook, Kansas, and Kentucky are all in the top-10. Tennessee and Marquette are also high-achieving programs with teams in the current top-10. There is some randomness:
- UCLA sucks this year.
- Utah State is top-25.
Those are the exceptions not the rule. In general the great programs have great teams (see current top-10). The good programs have good teams. Ohio State is a VERY good program historically and they have been a dumpster fire for the past two seasons and were only "meh" for Holtmann's 2nd through 5th seasons. A competent coach will get this program back to their historical average. We need a competent coach.
