header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: CFP Thread

 (Read 4682 times)

847badgerfan

  • Administrator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 34673
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #490 on: Today at 02:44:05 PM »
(For the record; I know what mine is... Go ALL the way back. No bowl alliance / coalition / BCS. No playoff of any size. Play your games, go to bowls, and the MNC(s) are awarded by the AP and Coaches polls once all the bowl games are played.)

Yes please.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Brutus Buckeye

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13551
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #491 on: Today at 02:50:53 PM »
The expanded playoffs were good in theory when they were going to add weight to winning your conference, but the ESPN machine will get it all unzipped. Now it will just be the 12 helmetiest teams every year, as long as they don't lose more than two games, or three if it's Bama. They will all schedule cupcake OOC schedules so that they don't lose more than two games, and the conferences will rig the schedules so that their traditional powers don't lose more than two games. CCGs will get cancelled, conference titles will be meaningless. The only way any other teams get in is if one of the traditional powers craps their pants, like Florida, Penn State and Clemson did this year. But they'll have easier schedules, so it's not likely. The regular season will be a bore fest outside of your traditional rivalry game(s), which won't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. 

Gigem

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 4662
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #492 on: Today at 02:56:01 PM »
You have it all backwards.

It's not "screw the little guy" to acknowledge they are playing on an entirely different competitive plane.  It's not "screw the little guy" to have the best teams that earn it make the playoff.  Letting in teams with bullshit high school schedules goes against everything we know from a competition standpoint.  11-1 and your best win is New Mexico?  No, sorry, that's not good enough.
Having the little guy get his head caved in every year isn't screwing him?!?  How's that?!?

And "make most of the games meaningless" how?!?  Its' better for all the undefeated and 1-loss teams late in the year to not give a shit if they lose, because they're in anyway?  Talk about meaningless games! 

I can't believe I'm getting flack for wanting teams to earn it.  What set college football apart was the urgency of the regular season.  That is completely gone now.  I want to go back to that.  We must not be speaking the same language for you to accuse me of wanting to "make most of the games meaningless." 
No, that's what we have now. 

And also no, it's not a good thing to have like 15 teams' fans thinking they're still in it, for 'engagement' or 'exciting' purposes.  It's bullshit, watering-down of college football.  It's lottery ticket thinking.  Fuck that.  I'm tired of catering to the dumbest, barely-interested "fans."  Fuck them.

What ever happened to making your product better in order to attract more fans?  Our culture has fallen into a habit of catering to the masses to bring them in, and it's detrimental.  Does it work?  Does it make 0.2% more money?  Sure.  You got me.  It works.
That doesn't mean it's the best way.  Being a whore to the dollar isn't the best way. 
OAM,

There is a flaw with your argument.  The flaw is, that you are essentially saying that somebody like New Mexico is always bad and somebody like, say Florida, is always good.  And I'll concede that 99% of the time, you're right.  But you can't just shut every team out who isn't in the SEC or Big 10, and relegate the ACC to Clemson/FSU/Miami and the Big 12 to.....I have no idea who would be the top teams there but we'll go with Texas Tech and Kansas State and TCU.  

We always acknowledged that CFB is a flawed sport, and there are too many Div I teams.  It's funny because we spent a lot of time arguing about how the regular season won't matter anymore and the playoff will ruin CFB but when somebody like Texas and ND get left out suddenly it's a bad system because.....surprise !  The regular season mattered !  

So what if we've got a flawed system....it's always been flawed.  Now it's just flawed differently.  Personally I have always felt that no team outside of the top 8 stood any chance so I truly could care less if a 9-3 team or 9-2 team gets left out.  They were never going to win it anyways.  And as far as JMU or Tulane go they played by the same rules that everybody else played by.  Every few years a team like Boise State will get good for a few years and get some prime bowl slot and everybody will complain that they didn't play a tough schedule and all that other bullshit but once a team like Boise State gets good nobody will schedule them.  We all know Alabama, Florida, Texas A&M, and every other team in the Big 10, Big 12, and ACC really don't want to schedule good teams like Boise State because if they lose, they want to lose to another "equivalent" program.  ND lost to the only two "real" teams on their schedule and still almost got into the CFP.  


What they really did was find a way to get the #5-10 teams into the CFP, and give a couple of teams a chance to prove they belong, at the same time giving a couple of teams a perceived easy CFP win.  Good for Ole Miss and Oregon.  They did what they needed to do and are still alive.  But they won't always be easy wins, sooner or later somebody will lose to an up-and-comer and it won't be pretty.  

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 51822
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #493 on: Today at 02:57:43 PM »
What is your idealized regular season, idealized postseason, and idealized method for crowning a champion?

(For the record; I know what mine is... Go ALL the way back. No bowl alliance / coalition / BCS. No playoff of any size. Play your games, go to bowls, and the MNC(s) are awarded by the AP and Coaches polls once all the bowl games are played.)

1973??
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9954
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #494 on: Today at 03:49:12 PM »
You have it all backwards.

It's not "screw the little guy" to acknowledge they are playing on an entirely different competitive plane.  It's not "screw the little guy" to have the best teams that earn it make the playoff.  Letting in teams with bullshit high school schedules goes against everything we know from a competition standpoint.  11-1 and your best win is New Mexico?  No, sorry, that's not good enough.
Having the little guy get his head caved in every year isn't screwing him?!?  How's that?!?

And "make most of the games meaningless" how?!?  Its' better for all the undefeated and 1-loss teams late in the year to not give a shit if they lose, because they're in anyway?  Talk about meaningless games! 

I can't believe I'm getting flack for wanting teams to earn it.  What set college football apart was the urgency of the regular season.  That is completely gone now.  I want to go back to that.  We must not be speaking the same language for you to accuse me of wanting to "make most of the games meaningless." 
No, that's what we have now. 

And also no, it's not a good thing to have like 15 teams' fans thinking they're still in it, for 'engagement' or 'exciting' purposes.  It's bullshit, watering-down of college football.  It's lottery ticket thinking.  Fuck that.  I'm tired of catering to the dumbest, barely-interested "fans."  Fuck them.

What ever happened to making your product better in order to attract more fans?  Our culture has fallen into a habit of catering to the masses to bring them in, and it's detrimental.  Does it work?  Does it make 0.2% more money?  Sure.  You got me.  It works.
That doesn't mean it's the best way.  Being a whore to the dollar isn't the best way. 
Again, chucking out the little guys is a push toward turning this into a better entertainment product to draw in more of the masses. I promise you, the masses want to see a big brand and not JMU. You yourself argue this is a way to attract fans.

You and the people most beholden to the dollar are comrades in arms. Congrats.

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9954
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #495 on: Today at 03:51:59 PM »
Yes please.
I remain extremely fascinated about what this would actually look like with modern outlooks. 

it’s all well and good to say you want sports traders and inattentive coaches to pick champions, it’s another to actually watch it happen in real time. Shoot, the last time that stuff occurred, newspapers mattered and the internet didn’t. 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 16109
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #496 on: Today at 03:59:24 PM »
1973??
1991 would suffice. That was the last year before the Bowl Coalition (92-94), followed by Bowl Alliance (95-97), and then BCS (98-2013). 

Prior to that, there was no "system" in place to ensure #1 and #2 faced each other in the bowls. And in my mind, it was better that there wasn't. You played who you played, and then the pollsters sorted it out. 

I remain extremely fascinated about what this would actually look like with modern outlooks.

it’s all well and good to say you want sports traders and inattentive coaches to pick champions, it’s another to actually watch it happen in real time. Shoot, the last time that stuff occurred, newspapers mattered and the internet didn’t.
Eh. You think it would be all that hard? At this point everyone can actually legitimately watch the games--perhaps not possible back in the old days. 

And really, it's only at most 4-5 teams in the hunt come bowl season. It's not like they have to watch every bowl. 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 16109
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #497 on: Today at 04:01:05 PM »
BTW I would also require a WINNING record, not .500, to qualify for bowls. So no 6-6 and not a bunch of extra bowls that then have to find 5-7 teams to field a game. 

If we have 12-game schedules, minimum for a bowl is 7-5. And I'd drop it to maybe 20 bowls (40 teams), which should be sufficient to ensure that nobody has to go scraping for 6-6 or 5-7 teams to fill a slot. A bowl destination for just under 1/3 of the sport (there's what, 130 FBS teams now?) is fine with me. 


FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 51822
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #498 on: Today at 04:06:05 PM »
I remain extremely fascinated about what this would actually look like with modern outlooks.

it’s all well and good to say you want sports traders and inattentive coaches to pick champions, it’s another to actually watch it happen in real time. Shoot, the last time that stuff occurred, newspapers mattered and the internet didn’t.
LBM Coach's Poll




Sports Trader's Poll


"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 51822
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #499 on: Today at 04:09:26 PM »
BTW I would also require a WINNING record, not .500, to qualify for bowls. So no 6-6 and not a bunch of extra bowls that then have to find 5-7 teams to field a game.

If we have 12-game schedules, minimum for a bowl is 7-5. And I'd drop it to maybe 20 bowls (40 teams), which should be sufficient to ensure that nobody has to go scraping for 6-6 or 5-7 teams to fill a slot. A bowl destination for just under 1/3 of the sport (there's what, 130 FBS teams now?) is fine with me.


hell, make it 8 wins mandatory
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 22494
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #500 on: Today at 04:15:53 PM »
We always acknowledged that CFB is a flawed sport, and there are too many Div I teams.  It's funny because we spent a lot of time arguing about how the regular season won't matter anymore and the playoff will ruin CFB but when somebody like Texas and ND get left out suddenly it's a bad system because.....surprise !  The regular season mattered! So what if we've got a flawed system....it's always been flawed.  Now it's just flawed differently.  Personally I have always felt that no team outside of the top 8 stood any chance   
Exactly
“I will honour Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year." - Ebenezer Scrouge

Brutus Buckeye

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 13551
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #501 on: Today at 04:20:44 PM »
BTW I would also require a WINNING record, not .500, to qualify for bowls. So no 6-6 and not a bunch of extra bowls that then have to find 5-7 teams to field a game.

If we have 12-game schedules, minimum for a bowl is 7-5. And I'd drop it to maybe 20 bowls (40 teams), which should be sufficient to ensure that nobody has to go scraping for 6-6 or 5-7 teams to fill a slot. A bowl destination for just under 1/3 of the sport (there's what, 130 FBS teams now?) is fine with me.


You want to bake in an advantage for good teams, where they get the extra bowl practices, while the Purdues of the world don't? 

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 16109
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #502 on: Today at 04:29:31 PM »
You want to bake in an advantage for good teams, where they get the extra bowl practices, while the Purdues of the world don't?
Eh. If we can't get to 7 wins, then so be it. 

We're not getting any bowl practices this year, but that's the penalty for being 2-10. 

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 9954
  • Liked:
Re: CFP Thread
« Reply #503 on: Today at 04:47:59 PM »
Eh. You think it would be all that hard? At this point everyone can actually legitimately watch the games--perhaps not possible back in the old days.

And really, it's only at most 4-5 teams in the hunt come bowl season. It's not like they have to watch every bowl.
I think it would be harder for people to accept that as a method of picking a champion. I think people have even less trust in those groups than they did back then. 

there are problems with a playoff, but as base it does bring some clarity.


(there’s also something fascinating about those groups being tasked with that job, because they’re in a kind of terrible spot to do it. But that’s another conversation)

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.