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Topic: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)

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iahawk15

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2019, 07:37:15 AM »
I think Alabama mulligan fatigue could swiftly transition to Clemson schedule fatigue if the ACC is dreadful again next year. This presumes Clemson makes the 2020 playoff.

Cincydawg

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2019, 08:31:11 AM »
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/clemson

They play at Notre Dame.  I can't see another game they realistically could lose.  Their recruiting has been at the very top of late.

847badgerfan

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2019, 08:53:46 AM »
I think Alabama mulligan fatigue could swiftly transition to Clemson schedule fatigue if the ACC is dreadful again next year. This presumes Clemson makes the 2020 playoff.
I don't see how they could miss at this point. Top recruiting classes, top coaching, crap conference. It all adds up to 13-0 again.
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Cincydawg

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2019, 09:04:30 AM »
They smoked UVA.  Florida somewhat struggled a bit.  Syllogism doesn't work of course, but LSU struggled with Florida.  Clemson might be THAT good, despite that UNC relative debacle.  Joe Burreaux is the wild card for me, he is playing at some kind of weird level I've not seen before.

This game will be worth watching methinks.  As for Clemson fatigue,  it is hard to see how they don't make the playoffs routinely, Bamaesque, until some year where somebody gets some kind of edge.  The do have a series with UGA, but that's 2029-2030.

MrNubbz

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2019, 09:10:34 AM »
Honestly I've always liked Alabama.  Maybe if they go another decade without winning another NC, I could get back to that.  It would also help if my own team weren't sucking so hard for so many years.
I've talked to the Lord about this but I received Dabo's permission and blessing 1st.The Lord said that the beatings will continue until the salty rubes on SurleyHorns stop badmouthing the Buckeyes
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Cincydawg

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2019, 09:26:58 AM »
To date, it is rare that a not quite blue blood has made the playoffs.  Is there any reason to expect that to change?  (I'm including Clemson as a recent Blue Blood here.)

UGA, Oregon, MSU, maybe somebody else of lesser stature have one appearance (for MSU not pretty).  I think it will continue to be mostly from the group Bama/Clemson/Ohio State/Oklahoma and then at times another "near BB" kind of team.  We almost had Utah this year, they really dropped in the bowl pecking order.

Will fans tire of that?

FearlessF

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2019, 10:13:26 AM »
As for Clemson fatigue,  it is hard to see how they don't make the playoffs routinely, Bamaesque, until some year where somebody gets some kind of edge.  The do have a series with UGA, but that's 2029-2030.
that's what they said about Florida St a few seasons back when they were dominating

I've always thought Brent Venables was one of the best defensive coaches in the game
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2019, 11:03:50 AM »
https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/clemson

They play at Notre Dame.  I can't see another game they realistically could lose.  Their recruiting has been at the very top of late.
To their credit they do play at Florida State next year.  FSU obviously wasn't great this year but they are a very strong team generally.  

That OOC is weak but only IF the ACC is still weak.  They do play a P5 team (USCe) and a quasi-P5 team (ND).  The other two though are horrible.  Akron was probably the worst team in all of FBS this year and Citadel is FCS.  

The other thing is that even if they lose at ND, that has no bearing on the ACCCG so if they end up 11-1 they'll be right back in the ACCCG against a (probably) weak opponent and 12-1 with a P5 Championship probably gets them in.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2019, 11:16:31 AM »
They smoked UVA.  Florida somewhat struggled a bit.  Syllogism doesn't work of course, but LSU struggled with Florida.  Clemson might be THAT good, despite that UNC relative debacle.  Joe Burreaux is the wild card for me, he is playing at some kind of weird level I've not seen before.

This game will be worth watching methinks.  As for Clemson fatigue,  it is hard to see how they don't make the playoffs routinely, Bamaesque, until some year where somebody gets some kind of edge.  The do have a series with UGA, but that's 2029-2030.
In some ways it is worse with Clemson/Oklahoma than it is with Bama because we all know that the SEC is a powerful league.  When Bama wins it, that is an accomplishment worth noting.  This year's ACC was horrible and now that OU has dropped to 0-4 in CFP games I think there are going to be questions about the value of winning the B12 going forward.  

Note, I'm not trying to pick a fight with @utee94 or @CWSooner or any other B12 fans here.  I'm just saying that it IS a potential issue.  It was for the B1G after MSU's blowout loss to Bama in 2015.  Recent conference history/performance matters whether we like it or not.  For the B1G:

In 2014 tOSU won the NC.  Then in 2015 MSU won the B1G at 12-1 with a bad loss to a Nebraska team that finished 6-6.  Part of the reason that the Nebraska loss did NOT keep MSU out of the CFP was that they had defeated last year's NC and won the conference that the previous NC came from.  

Then in 2016 tOSU got in at 11-1 and without a Championship based partially on the perception of tOSU based on winning the CFP in 2014 and winning the Fiesta Bowl in 2015.  Ohio State was seen as a legit contender for the NC even without a P5 Championship based partially on perception based on prior years.  

Then in 2017 tOSU was left out at 11-2 with a P5 Championship and one of the losses being to a fellow P5 Champion based partially on the fact that tOSU had gotten blown out in the CFP the previous year.  11-1 non-Champion Bama was seen as a more legitimate NC contender based on both teams' past results.  

Then in 2018 tOSU was left out and even held behind an 11-2 non-champion from the SEC despite being a 12-1 P5 Champion.  By that time the B1G had gone three years without being competitive in the CFP (MSU in 2015 and tOSU in 2016 were blown out) so the SEC runner-up was seen as a more legit NC challenger than the 12-1 B1G Champion.  

This year tOSU eliminated all doubt by going 13-0 and their CFP performance did not make them look unworthy of the CFP slot.  They clearly stood toe-to-toe with Clemson even though they lost.  Next year's B1G Champion will benefit from that even if it isn't tOSU.  

This will be a problem for next  year's B12 Champion because they have had four CFP chances and only been close one time.  If next year's B1G and B12 Champions are close and in contention for the fourth spot I strongly believe that it will go to the B1G Champion based on that history.  

utee94

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2019, 11:56:48 AM »
In some ways it is worse with Clemson/Oklahoma than it is with Bama because we all know that the SEC is a powerful league.  When Bama wins it, that is an accomplishment worth noting.  This year's ACC was horrible and now that OU has dropped to 0-4 in CFP games I think there are going to be questions about the value of winning the B12 going forward. 

Note, I'm not trying to pick a fight with @utee94 or @CWSooner or any other B12 fans here.  I'm just saying that it IS a potential issue.  It was for the B1G after MSU's blowout loss to Bama in 2015.  Recent conference history/performance matters whether we like it or not.  For the B1G:

In 2014 tOSU won the NC.  Then in 2015 MSU won the B1G at 12-1 with a bad loss to a Nebraska team that finished 6-6.  Part of the reason that the Nebraska loss did NOT keep MSU out of the CFP was that they had defeated last year's NC and won the conference that the previous NC came from. 

Then in 2016 tOSU got in at 11-1 and without a Championship based partially on the perception of tOSU based on winning the CFP in 2014 and winning the Fiesta Bowl in 2015.  Ohio State was seen as a legit contender for the NC even without a P5 Championship based partially on perception based on prior years. 

Then in 2017 tOSU was left out at 11-2 with a P5 Championship and one of the losses being to a fellow P5 Champion based partially on the fact that tOSU had gotten blown out in the CFP the previous year.  11-1 non-Champion Bama was seen as a more legitimate NC contender based on both teams' past results. 

Then in 2018 tOSU was left out and even held behind an 11-2 non-champion from the SEC despite being a 12-1 P5 Champion.  By that time the B1G had gone three years without being competitive in the CFP (MSU in 2015 and tOSU in 2016 were blown out) so the SEC runner-up was seen as a more legit NC challenger than the 12-1 B1G Champion. 

This year tOSU eliminated all doubt by going 13-0 and their CFP performance did not make them look unworthy of the CFP slot.  They clearly stood toe-to-toe with Clemson even though they lost.  Next year's B1G Champion will benefit from that even if it isn't tOSU. 

This will be a problem for next  year's B12 Champion because they have had four CFP chances and only been close one time.  If next year's B1G and B12 Champions are close and in contention for the fourth spot I strongly believe that it will go to the B1G Champion based on that history. 

An undefeated Texas or OU are going to get into the CFP, I hope we call agree on that?

A 1-loss Texas or OU might not, depending.  We're certainly not going to get the BOTD that the SEC gets, or that Clemson gets.

But we'll get as much or more than the PAC or any non-Clemson ACC team does.

So I think what you're really getting at, is that a 1-loss B12 champ might get edged  by a 1-loss B1G champ.  My response is... maybe?  Depends on who it is.  A 1-loss Texas or OU is likely going to get bumped for a 1-loss Ohio State.  Beyond that?  I don't think it's much of an issue for Texas or OU.  For the rest of the B12, it was always going to be an issue regardless.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2019, 12:20:51 PM »
An undefeated Texas or OU are going to get into the CFP, I hope we call agree on that?

A 1-loss Texas or OU might not, depending.  We're certainly not going to get the BOTD that the SEC gets, or that Clemson gets.

But we'll get as much or more than the PAC or any non-Clemson ACC team does.

So I think what you're really getting at, is that a 1-loss B12 champ might get edged  by a 1-loss B1G champ.  My response is... maybe?  Depends on who it is.  A 1-loss Texas or OU is likely going to get bumped for a 1-loss Ohio State.  Beyond that?  I don't think it's much of an issue for Texas or OU.  For the rest of the B12, it was always going to be an issue regardless.
Agreed on point one, but I don't think it is just UT or OU.  IMHO, any undefeated P5 team is getting in unless there are five or six of them (in theory there could be six counting ND) and one or more HAS to get left out.  

I am not really bothered by the BOTD that Clemson and the SEC get.  They have earned it.  The non-Bama SEC teams haven't really earned it, but any team that wins the SEC will have either beaten Bama or beaten a team that did.  I'm ok with that.  

You are probably right with regard to the PAC and non-Clemson ACC.  The PAC is 1-2 in CFP games, the win was in the very first CFP game, and the two losses were not particularly close.  The non-Clemson ACC is 0-1.  The problem is that the B12's 0-4 is also not good.  

By conference:
  • 8-4 SEC about to be either 9-4 or 8-5 (6-3 Bama, 1-1 UGA, 1-0 LSU)
  • 6-3 ACC about to be either 7-3 or 6-4 (6-2 Clemson, 0-1 FSU)
  • 2-3 B1G (2-2 tOSU, 0-1 MSU)
  • 1-2 PAC (1-1 Oregon, 0-1 Washington)
  • 0-4 B12 (all OU)
  • 0-1 Independent (all ND)

As you know, I don't think it is nearly as much about "helmet" as you do.  I do think that it is possible that a 12-1 OU or UT could get bumped for a 12-1 Wisconsin.  If it was only about helmet, obviously OU/UT would win that but if you look at CFP results, UW is from a conference that is 2-3 and OU/UT are from a conference that is 0-4.  The thing is that it will be hard to tell because there will always be a lot of moving parts.  How good/bad were the teams' OOC's?  How dominant/close were their wins?  How good was the rest of the league and therefore their SoS?  


Cincydawg

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2019, 12:24:35 PM »
Yup.  On helmet along, OU and Texas only get bumped if the alternative is Ohio State, Alabama, or Clemson, presuming all are 12-1.  And Clemson was a 3 seed when 13-0 versus LSU and OSU at 13-0.  

FearlessF

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2019, 12:31:27 PM »
possibly Michigan if they ever beat OSU
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847badgerfan

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Re: CFP National Championship game: #1 LSU (14-0) vs #3 Clemson (14-0)
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2019, 12:35:35 PM »
So, it won't be the Wolverines then?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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