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Topic: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #140 on: January 05, 2018, 04:09:18 PM »
Quote from: ELA on January 05, 2018, 01:30:11 PM
Exactly.  Why open themselves up to this?
There should be no poll.  Hell, there should be no weekly release.  There should just be a bracket on the first Sunday in December
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 05, 2018, 03:14:27 PM
You could eliminate polls tomorrow, and there'd be a new one up to replace them the next day.  
Well, the whole point of the committee was that these were uncorruptable minds who made their decisions from a background of deep knowledge, unlike AP journalists who may not know the game well enough and coaches who don't have time to watch all the other teams enough to fill out polls. The idea of not using the polls is that these people are purported to be smarter than the people filling out the polls, so their opinion is the credible one.

But these are not stupid people. They know that if they don't release anything until after the conference championship games and they differ widely from the polls, they'll get skewered by the media. But if they release their early polls, eventually they'll influence the AP and coaches such that the polls will "come together" by the time they have to make selections. Releasing their polls starting midseason is done for a reason. 

The polls were always groupthink. The CFP can't force the AP not to do a poll. They don't control the AP. All they can say is that they don't use the AP in their selection process, but that doesn't stop the AP from releasing one. But by the committee releasing weekly they can influence the AP, and then by the time the selection comes around, there are very few surprises.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #141 on: January 05, 2018, 04:39:55 PM »
The AP were (are?) mindless cattle, stacking up the teams in the preseason, then lining them back up each week according to that list and who lost.  The final AP poll is a history of simple minds - undefeateds listed first, then the 1-loss teams, then the 2-loss teams.  The only ones breaking the line were mid-majors who were further down.

Personally, I think it's great that the committee had a 2-loss team ranked over another P5 undefeated.  The specific schools are irrelevant - it shows that they're not mindlessly ranking the teams the way a 7 year old might.  Now, they might've been right or wrong in doing so, but at least they were using their adult minds.

It's progress.
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FearlessF

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #142 on: January 05, 2018, 04:49:09 PM »
so the committee influenced the AP voters so well that the top 9 spots are exactly the same?

and in the top 12 the only difference is that UCF is #10 in the AP and #12 in the committee's poll?

hah, maybe the AP should be influencing the committee because UCF should have been ranked higher

If the top 9 slots are exactly the same, the committee is working many hours for nuthin and ESPN is paying them for something the AP does for free.
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FearlessF

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #143 on: January 05, 2018, 04:51:09 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 05, 2018, 04:39:55 PM
The AP were (are?) mindless cattle, stacking up the teams in the preseason, then lining them back up each week according to that list and who lost.  The final AP poll is a history of simple minds - undefeateds listed first, then the 1-loss teams, then the 2-loss teams.  The only ones breaking the line were mid-majors who were further down.

Personally, I think it's great that the committee had a 2-loss team ranked over another P5 undefeated.  The specific schools are irrelevant - it shows that they're not mindlessly ranking the teams the way a 7 year old might.  Now, they might've been right or wrong in doing so, but at least they were using their adult minds.

It's progress.
mindless cattle gather together
http://www.espn.com/college-football/rankings
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847badgerfan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #144 on: January 05, 2018, 05:06:29 PM »
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FearlessF

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #145 on: January 05, 2018, 05:33:39 PM »
hey, if we had a 10 team playoff we would really need this committee
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #146 on: January 05, 2018, 06:48:26 PM »
I think the committee's way of ranking teams has rubbed off onto the AP voters.  I was mostly talking about the history of AP voting.

Name-brand team loses, the fall to the bottom of the undefeateds list.  3 weeks later another name-brand team loses, they fall down to below that first team who lost, creating a line of 1-loss teams who inch their way up as others lose in chronological order.

If you go back week-by-week, the AP voters were super fickle the further back you go.  But somewhere in the 90s and into the BCS years, the AP voting was embarrassingly infantile and simple-minded.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #147 on: January 05, 2018, 06:52:40 PM »
On OSU being out and Bama in, here's an interesting nugget:

3 teams in the top 10 won their conference championship game and had room to move up:
Georgia
Ohio State
USC

All 3 teams moved up 3 spots.  That's pretty consistent.  Alabama moved up one spot because 2 teams above them lost.  So I don't know how much the Buckeyes can  complain when they moved up exactly as many spots as conf champs UGA and USC did. (AP poll anyway.....in the playoff poll, USC only moved up 2 spots).
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847badgerfan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #148 on: January 05, 2018, 07:04:53 PM »
There is no good way to do this, so that means...

Rose: PAC vs. B1G
Sugar: SEC vs. at large
Cotton: XII vs. at large
Orange: ACC vs. at large
Fiesta: at large vs. at large

Let the arguments begin. Just like now.
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847badgerfan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #149 on: January 05, 2018, 07:06:10 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 05, 2018, 06:52:40 PM
On OSU being out and Bama in, here's an interesting nugget:

3 teams in the top 10 won their conference championship game and had room to move up:
Georgia
Ohio State
USC

All 3 teams moved up 3 spots.  That's pretty consistent.  Alabama moved up one spot because 2 teams above them lost.  So I don't know how much the Buckeyes can  complain when they moved up exactly as many spots as conf champs UGA and USC did. (AP poll anyway.....in the playoff poll, USC only moved up 2 spots).
I noticed that too. But I can't get past the "very little separation" thing.
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FearlessF

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #150 on: January 05, 2018, 08:47:33 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 05, 2018, 07:04:53 PM
There is no good way to do this, so that means...

Rose: PAC vs. B1G - USC vs OSU
Sugar: SEC vs. at large - UGA vs PSU
Cotton: XII vs. at large - OU vs UW
Orange: ACC vs. at large - Clemson vs Bama
Fiesta: at large vs. at large - Auburn - UCF

Let the arguments begin. Just like now.  at least 4 teams have a chance at being voted #1 after the bowls if there are a couple upsets
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #151 on: January 05, 2018, 09:31:42 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 05, 2018, 07:04:53 PM
There is no good way to do this, so that means...

Rose: PAC vs. B1G
Sugar: SEC vs. at large
Cotton: XII vs. at large
Orange: ACC vs. at large
Fiesta: at large vs. at large

Let the arguments begin. Just like now.
That's hot.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #152 on: January 05, 2018, 09:39:15 PM »


This would yield an OU national champion...
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: CFB Is Terrible At Crowning a Champion
« Reply #153 on: January 05, 2018, 10:40:25 PM »
UW played defense really well and OU didn't. I think Big Red could hang with them or even beat them on a neutral field. Not sure the Cotton would be neutral for UW though.

I'd rather they play in the Sugar or Orange (and not Miami in the Orange).

What I do know is that UW could not "out Bama" Alabama. Not enough depth to even think about winning against them.

I'd like to see Bama play OU this year. I think that would be an excellent game to watch.
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