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Topic: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2021, 05:43:52 PM »
Yes - I agree. That's why I like the idea of everyone getting a chance to play their way in. That's what makes it fun. Excluding teams basically because they have bad recruiting rankings is the opposite of fun.
So let's do the 12-team playoff and let in the Sun Belt champs each season to play Alabama or Ohio State or whoever.  Advance 10 years.  The Sun Belt champs are 0-10 with an average margin of 45-13. 
The Sun Belt's champs' reward for a great season is to get curb-stomped, having had no chance to win before the game began.  They're supposed to look forward to that?!?  THAT'S a reward? 

It's masochistic.  But it's fair!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2021, 06:01:32 PM »
So let's do the 12-team playoff and let in the Sun Belt champs each season to play Alabama or Ohio State or whoever.  Advance 10 years.  The Sun Belt champs are 0-10 with an average margin of 45-13. 
The Sun Belt's champs' reward for a great season is to get curb-stomped, having had no chance to win before the game began.  They're supposed to look forward to that?!?  THAT'S a reward? 

It's masochistic.  But it's fair!
Also not accurate. I assume under a 12 team format you would have byes for the top 4. Coastal Carolina was the de facto Sun Belt champ. They probably would gave been seeded 8th, maybe playing San Jose St. In the first round. No chance against San Jose St.?


bayareabadger

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2021, 11:55:00 PM »
So let's do the 12-team playoff and let in the Sun Belt champs each season to play Alabama or Ohio State or whoever.  Advance 10 years.  The Sun Belt champs are 0-10 with an average margin of 45-13. 
The Sun Belt's champs' reward for a great season is to get curb-stomped, having had no chance to win before the game began.  They're supposed to look forward to that?!?  THAT'S a reward? 

It's masochistic.  But it's fair!
Yep. They get the chance. They’re not good enough. The beauty of competition is put into action. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2021, 10:31:17 AM »
Well, there are reasons we don't have an 8 team playoff, despite its being very popular and would make more money.

Those must be pretty good reasons.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2021, 12:28:19 PM »
Not necessarily.

They could also be dumb reasons.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2021, 12:35:48 PM »
They may be dumb and still good, in the sense they are effective and influential among the PTBs.

Those reasons have to be traversed to effect change.

bayareabadger

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2021, 01:10:48 PM »
Well, there are reasons we don't have an 8 team playoff, despite its being very popular and would make more money.

Those must be pretty good reasons.
Some of the reason might just be that change is hard? Like, you’re moving money and funds around. The bowl system made a lot of bowl folks a good bit of money for somewhat minimal jobs. 

The whole system climbed out of the primordial ooze kind of by accident. That’s not to say change is or was super necessary, but the fundamentals might just be based on momentum. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2021, 01:14:25 PM »
Also not accurate. I assume under a 12 team format you would have byes for the top 4. Coastal Carolina was the de facto Sun Belt champ. They probably would gave been seeded 8th, maybe playing San Jose St. In the first round. No chance against San Jose St.?


There are zero formats in which a SJST would play Coastal in a playoff.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2021, 01:15:23 PM »
Not necessarily.

They could also be dumb reasons.
I'm assuming selfish reasons, by those in power, promoting the status quo.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2021, 01:21:02 PM »
Yup.

Which is why they shoulda left it alone from about 1983 on.
At times I’ve tried to think through this counter factual. My assumption is this would lead to a situation more annoying than the one we have now for a key reason.

CFB fans are deeply unable to unplug from the national discourse. We no ranking have no meaning, but we allow them to create strong emotions. The posters on here are much smarter than average, but still we can say we don’t care about ESPN opinions (that’s good) and still worry the playoff is sucking up all the oxygen, where the oxygen is the very act of giving attention at all. And we’re in an era where you can deep dive into whatever team/seasons you care for and hardly note the national dialogue at all. But we just don’t.

In 1983, part of the reason the system could stand was because there was less info and many fewer voices. Maybe your local columnist or the SI writer broke down this weird system, but we weren’t all interconnected, we couldn’t all find everything in 10 seconds. If we had the old system, the national discussion from which we can’t unplug would just be trained on the system. Back then we were completely ok with sports writer rankings and coaches who maybe do their own ballots running the whole show. But that being it most certainly would be a disaster in our modern media environment.

Basically, we know too much, and a system built on the options of those two groups just wouldn’t stand up without a bonkers discourse we can’t help but plug into.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2021, 01:26:54 PM »
1983 is  unique season where SOS didn't exist somehow.  Auburn got screwed....hard....without its consent. 
Miami jumped from 5 to 1.  Had a blowout loss early on.
Texas beat Auburn early on, and lost by 1 point to UGA.
UGA only lost to Auburn, by a TD.
And of all of those, UNL was the juggernaut with the weakest schedule by far, and the 1-point loss to the Canes.
.
That would have been a slobberknocker of a 4-team playoff, but still, one of them is getting screwed out of it.  Based on the final regular season poll:
Miami wouldn't have made the playoff (5th)
Georgia wouldn't either (7th)
10-1 SMU (a very popular team in Whoa Nellie) wouldn't make it
.
You'd have 1 Nebraska vs 4 Illinois, which would have been assault & battery, and
2 Texas vs 3 Auburn in a rematch
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 01:33:42 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2021, 01:54:41 PM »
I want to live in a world where a team like Navy could win their conference, and then triple option their way through a few of the big boys in the playoffs. Take out Notre Dame in round one, then Oklahoma in round two, then give Bama a scare for a few quarters in the NCG. Tough to top that.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2021, 01:55:34 PM »
Well, there are reasons we don't have an 8 team playoff, despite its being very popular and would make more money.

Those must be pretty good reasons.
CD, your response strikes me as very similar to the Efficient Market Hypothesis [EMH], and with the same flaw.

People strawman the EMH as if current prices must reflect some certain reality and therefore whatever exists is "right"... Whereas the EMH merely suggests that the process moves towards economic efficiency, on balance, over time. But believing too hard in the EMH is like the old quote about the market and rationality... The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

There may be reasons why it hasn't happened yet. Those reasons may be effective at stopping it... It doesn't necessarily mean those reasons are good. We went decades and decades with the poll-based MNC system--for many of those decades with the final polls occurring before the bowl games, IIRC. Then we had the BCS for a little under two decades. Now we've only had the CFP since 2014. Due to the inertia, tradition, and pace of change in the sport, I'm not sure we can say that the reasons we're not at 8 teams are good ones. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Bleacher Report says 12 team CFP gaining momentum
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2021, 03:43:37 PM »
By good reasons, I mean effective reasons, not reasons any of us might agree with.  The reasons have been very effective at preventing any 8 team playoff despite of the obvious advantages and popularity of the concept with many.

So, call them effective reasons.

 

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