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Topic: Big Ten Expansion

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #98 on: April 08, 2024, 09:53:13 PM »
btw, we're WAY off-topic here
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #99 on: April 08, 2024, 09:55:15 PM »
@OrangeAfroMan , economists refer to what @betarhoalphadelta described here as "revealed preference".  It is a topic that economists spend a great deal of time researching and studying because it screws with their models.  An example (I'm making this up but I would guess it is close to true):
  • Conduct a poll, 90% of fliers say they'd pay $10 for a bigger seat.
  • Actually redesign the plane to offer bigger seats and offer them for fares of $10 higher than the normal and . . . nobody buys tickets. 
#1 is what people say they want but #2 is what they ACTUALLY want - their revealed preference.  This happens all the time, not just with flying.  When polled people think "sure I'd pay $10 for a bigger seat" and they aren't really "lying", in that moment they REALLY believe that they would but then when push comes to shove and they go to google flights to find flights for their next trip what they actually do is click "sort by price" and pick the cheapest or at least the cheapest that is not too ridiculously inconvenient to their schedule. 

The economics of airfare in general is fascinating.  More than almost any other industry, the marginal costs (cost to add one more unit - in this case passenger) are usually effectively zero.  Ie, if an airline has a plane flying from LA to Phoenix this afternoon, so long as not all the seats are sold, the cost to the airline of putting Beta's butt in one of their empty seats to fly him to Phoenix for Purdue's triumphant National Championship is effectively almost zero.  Fundamentally this is why the airlines offer standby fares for REALLY cheap, because if they have extra seats on a plane basically anything they get for those seats is a net positive for the airline. 

$230 vs $902 (flight chosen at random)
economy vs first class

Try again.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2024, 09:59:01 PM »
I do have a question for B10ers:

say the B1G and SEC wind up picking the top programs left from the ACC and XII and the 2 decision-maker conferences sit down with ND and gives them the bad news....you have to join a conference.

Is there any way ND chooses the SEC?  Eschewing the traditional programs that have always littered their schedule in an attempt to get that southern talent?
Is that a crazy idea?  I'd never considered it before.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2024, 10:02:30 PM »
How would you rank the remaining FBS teams, from most to least likely to join the Big Ten-SEC conglomeration? 

ie: Florida State would be at or near the top, while New Mexico State would be at or near the bottom, and so forth. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2024, 10:31:56 PM »
I HOPE it doesn't matter, as I view 80 as too many and am hoping for 60. 
I see them as tiers, and not a ranking. 

Tier 1:  safely in the club
FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC, Virginia, Colorado, ND
.
Tier 2:  safe, unless we get a 40-team NFL Jr
Cal, Stanford, VA Tech, Arizona, ASU, SMU, GA Tech, Pitt
.
Tier 3:  not safe, tagalongs - opponents the programs in Tier 1 and 2 would like to continue to play
Kansas, KSU, Utah, BYU, Texas Tech, WV, OK State, Baylor, TCU, NC State, Duke, BC, Syracuse, Louisville
.
Tier 4:  the P5 fringes and strong-ish G5 programs:
UCF, Houston, Cincinnati, Iowa St, Wake Forest, Tulane, Memphis, Navy, Boise St, Fresno St, San Diego St
.
Tier 5:  Irrelevant, honestly.....hoping to be that 80th team
Everyone else, but some thoughts on specific ones:
UNLV - only plus is that it's in Vegas
JMU, App St, Coastal - recent success, but such newbies
So. Miss, LA Tech, Toledo, Miami(OH), USAFA - has had some history of mattering, but now irrelevant
.
I just don't see any point in trying to differentiate between South Alabama, Ball State, and Rice.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #103 on: April 09, 2024, 12:12:52 AM »
$230 vs $902 (flight chosen at random)
economy vs first class

Try again.
Don't act smug when you can't understand what the adults are talking about. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #104 on: April 09, 2024, 01:07:53 AM »
Don't act smug when you can't understand what the adults are talking about.
Nothing you said was hard to follow.  I get it.  I believe you, in principal, but it doesn't work when the price difference is quadruple.  
And the airline business having razor-thin margins is well-known, too.

Don't get pissy when your points aren't astute.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

847badgerfan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #105 on: April 09, 2024, 07:57:35 AM »
Yes, people chose low price because that's all they can afford. 
Don't to a bullshit +$10 for first class example, because this isn't about a few bucks for a better experience.  I just looked up the same dates on a travel site for economy vs first class and you're spending 4x as much for a slightly larger seat.

If the airlines' margins are so shitty, then perhaps we shouldn't have widespread air travel.  Flights can be similar to safe neighborhoods or green grass and manicured roadways - perks for the wealthy.

The more people say they're not rich here, the less I believe it.  Maybe I should specify upper class, so that nobody's panties get in a pinch.  To argue against it is odd and dishonest.  Cruises, fights, trips, weeks in Europe, etc. aren't even feasible for most people.  The argument against my claim SHOULD be "we're old farts at our wealthiest point of our lives" and obviously not "we're not rich." 

Just be accurate, man.

Now, go poll potential flyers and ask them if they'd pay over 4x the cost of a ticket onto the plane to have a seat 3-4 inches wider. 
No, that's not worth it for 99% of people.  Duh. 

For most, being packed in like sardines is their only option.  The other potential option is simply not flying.  That's the fancy-pants economic explanation.  Do not pretend otherwise.
Absolutely not, unless it's a free upgrade.
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FearlessF

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #106 on: April 09, 2024, 09:26:59 AM »
well, nothing is "free"
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2024, 10:01:33 AM »
Yes, people chose low price because that's all they can afford. 
Don't to a bullshit +$10 for first class example, because this isn't about a few bucks for a better experience.  I just looked up the same dates on a travel site for economy vs first class and you're spending 4x as much for a slightly larger seat.

If the airlines' margins are so shitty, then perhaps we shouldn't have widespread air travel.  Flights can be similar to safe neighborhoods or green grass and manicured roadways - perks for the wealthy.

The more people say they're not rich here, the less I believe it.  Maybe I should specify upper class, so that nobody's panties get in a pinch.  To argue against it is odd and dishonest.  Cruises, fights, trips, weeks in Europe, etc. aren't even feasible for most people.  The argument against my claim SHOULD be "we're old farts at our wealthiest point of our lives" and obviously not "we're not rich." 

Just be accurate, man.

Now, go poll potential flyers and ask them if they'd pay over 4x the cost of a ticket onto the plane to have a seat 3-4 inches wider. 
No, that's not worth it for 99% of people.  Duh. 

For most, being packed in like sardines is their only option.  The other potential option is simply not flying.  That's the fancy-pants economic explanation.  Do not pretend otherwise.
Listen, you're the one that said "make the whole plane first class". That's what started this. Now you're gonna say "but first class is too expensive, man!" Well, yeah. That's why they don't do it. 

And you know how many first class airline tickets I've bought in my life? Zero. Not a single one. The only times I've gotten to sit up there have been free upgrades b/c I was flying so much for work that I had status. 

Now you're saying that regular people shouldn't fly, and it should be reserved for the upper class? I mean, what the hell are you even talking about? 

FearlessF

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2024, 10:03:45 AM »
he likes to argue for the sake of arguing

it's quite obvious
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Gigem

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #109 on: April 09, 2024, 12:48:25 PM »
You ever watch TV shows and movies from the 80's and earlier that show how roomy the planes used to be?  It's funny, because people on the whole are much larger now than 30-40 years ago, but the seats are much smaller.  

I also blame it on the fact that you really can't "try it on" before buying.  You're buying something you can't tangibly feel, based on price.  If I was sitting on an airplane, with my 6-3" 250# frame in a seat, and the seat next to me had 2-4 inches more room, and they asked " wanna upgrade for $10 more" I'd jump at the chance.  Instead I fly so infrequently that I hardly even know the ins and outs of any airline or what prices mean what, so I'm just guessing at what to buy.  I really only fly maybe once or twice every other year.  Sometimes it may be 3-4 years between my last plane ride.  So everything that you had before is changed now, like non-assigned seating on Southwest, or Continental Airlines being gone and now it's just all United, or this one merging with that one.  Who the F knows.  And when I do look online, as stated, the price never marginally increases from one option to the next.  Instead, they jump $100's of dollars, without even really knowing what you're getting extra.  

847badgerfan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #110 on: April 09, 2024, 03:03:18 PM »
btw, we're WAY off-topic here
It's offseason everything, unless you're into baseball. Most here are not.
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847badgerfan

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Re: Big Ten Expansion
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2024, 03:05:55 PM »
You ever watch TV shows and movies from the 80's and earlier that show how roomy the planes used to be?  It's funny, because people on the whole are much larger now than 30-40 years ago, but the seats are much smaller. 

I also blame it on the fact that you really can't "try it on" before buying.  You're buying something you can't tangibly feel, based on price.  If I was sitting on an airplane, with my 6-3" 250# frame in a seat, and the seat next to me had 2-4 inches more room, and they asked " wanna upgrade for $10 more" I'd jump at the chance.  Instead I fly so infrequently that I hardly even know the ins and outs of any airline or what prices mean what, so I'm just guessing at what to buy.  I really only fly maybe once or twice every other year.  Sometimes it may be 3-4 years between my last plane ride.  So everything that you had before is changed now, like non-assigned seating on Southwest, or Continental Airlines being gone and now it's just all United, or this one merging with that one.  Who the F knows.  And when I do look online, as stated, the price never marginally increases from one option to the next.  Instead, they jump $100's of dollars, without even really knowing what you're getting extra. 
Pick an airline. Get their credit card. Rack up points with it. Fly for free with upgrade to increased legroom. It works.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

 

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