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Topic: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)

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fezzador

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2020, 08:52:06 AM »
1983 - Auburn.  No guarantees they would have beaten either Miami FL or the 'skers, but they would have given both of them a game.
1984 - Florida.  The real natty should have been Washington v. Florida.  Florida started slow (loss to Miami FL and tied LSU to start 0-1-1), but went on a tear afterwards.  They would have absolutely shredded BYU, and probably Washington too.
2002 - USC - a pair of early losses effectively knocked them out of the MNC picture, but by late November they were looking damn near unbeatable.  

ALA2262

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2020, 07:13:21 PM »
Voted other and will go slightly before the 70's with 1966 Bama. Two time defending NC goes undefeated and finishes third to ND and MSU who played to a 10-10 tie. Keith Dunnavant wrote a book ('The Missing Ring') about the season.

"The Missing Ring is more than a football book. It is both a story of a changing era and of an extraordinary team on a championship quest."

https://www.amazon.com/Missing-Ring-Alabama-Crimson-Footballs/dp/0312374321

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2020, 07:18:45 PM »
I always think they get lost in the shuffle, behind that version of the Game of the Century.  Glad someone wrote a book about it.  Imagine playing on that '66 Bama team and someone says you're the 3rd-best team.  I'd tell them to F-off, lol.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2020, 07:30:02 PM »
I've always read that it had to do with black folks getting hit with billy clubs, firehoses, police dogs, bullets, and the like when they marched for civil rights.  The Bama football team was getting punished for the sins of Alabama and the rest of the Deep South.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 09:56:58 PM by CWSooner »
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2020, 07:53:19 PM »
It took longer than it should for the south in general to gain traction nationally in football, because of those same reasons, I'm sure.  Until Alabama in 1926, southern teams were treated 'less than'.  Georgia Tech and Vanderbilt had some legit teams in the teens and early 20s and weren't exactly getting the royal treatment, nationally.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

ALA2262

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2020, 09:07:31 PM »
I always think they get lost in the shuffle, behind that version of the Game of the Century.  Glad someone wrote a book about it.  Imagine playing on that '66 Bama team and someone says you're the 3rd-best team.  I'd tell them to F-off, lol.
The AP Pollsters were determined that Bama would not repeat. Although they had Bama #1 in the Preseason Poll, they had dropped them to #3 before Bama had played a game. In no small part because of the 13th hour replacement of an SEC opponent with a non-1A opponent for the opener.

Tulane was scheduled to be the opening game opponent, but asked to be removed from the schedule when they left the conference on June 1. 1966. They were replaced that Summer by La Tech, a non-1A at the time.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=310#.XpZYMv1KiUk

Furthermore, they even dropped Bama to #4 in the third week's Poll. Unbelievable because the consensus public mindset during that era was that a #1 team remained #1 until they were beaten.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/football/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=312#.XpZcFP1KiUk

Coach Bryant was on record as saying it was the best team he ever had. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 09:13:09 PM by ALA2262 »

CWSooner

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2020, 09:58:44 PM »
It took longer than it should for the south in general to gain traction nationally in football, because of those same reasons, I'm sure.  Until Alabama in 1926, southern teams were treated 'less than'.  Georgia Tech and Vanderbilt had some legit teams in the teens and early 20s and weren't exactly getting the royal treatment, nationally.
Did the midwestern teams go through that a couple of decades earlier--where they were having to prove themselves against the Ivy League and other northeastern elites?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2020, 12:38:23 AM »
That's difficult to say, because it's less a regional bias thing and more of a full-schedule, stability thing.
In the 1800s, college football was all Ivy League.  They were good, but they also played a full schedule (8-9-10 games).  No one else did.  So you'd have midwestern, southern, and western teams going 4-0 or 5-0 or whatever, but they were unknown commodities and didn't get the benefit of the doubt because they played relatively few games.
So the midwestern schools forming the Big Ten in 1896 and just 5 years later, Michigan is a RECOGNIZED national power.
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Now teams in the south and west were then playing 7-8-9 games, but not getting any play.  The midwest had Michigan, Chicago, Illinois, ND......the east still had the Ivies going strong, plus Pitt. (the Ivies weren't "The Ivy League" as a conference, but they all played each other and were good)
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More conferences begin (1905-1915), in the plains, the SWC, and out west.  Western teams like early 20s Cal, Stanford, and USC became a power before the south got any due.  GA Tech was recognized in 1917, but that was a WWI thing. 
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The Southern Conference began in 1922, so you could point to that being the thing that kept them down as much as being socially backwards. 
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Another aspect was travel/money.  Remember, football didn't exactly have permanence early on.  T.Roosevelt had to intervene to keep it going early in the 1900s.  So we couldn't criticize a school if it didn't want to pay for its team to hop a train to travel very far.  
Looking at schedules back then, the southern and western teams were very regional.  They had to be.  The furthest I see teams travelling pre-1920 is Texas playing Alabama and Auburn.  West coast teams were exclusively regional until the Rose Bowl began.  It was the Rose Bowl, and beating those credible Big Ten school that allowed the west coast schools to get respect earlier than the southern schools.
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The midwest schools who happened to sort of bet on football remaining a thing traveled east - playing the likes of Pitt and some even crossing the Appalachians, playing Virginia, Penn, Syracuse and Yale.  I really think the birth of the helmet program was with those schools willing to travel.  ND played @Nebraska, @Army, and @Texas in 1915.  Why was little Vanderbilt the SEC's first power?  They played Michigan for a few consecutive years, raising their notoriety.  GA Tech played ND.  It was all about money-travel-exposure-respect.
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« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 12:56:36 AM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2020, 12:48:47 AM »
As others have pointed out, the Southern Conference had some odd scheduling practices that carried over into the SEC for a long time.
Or am I just thinking about the SEC?
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2020, 01:05:25 AM »
Well the Southern Conference (precursor to the SEC) lacked moderation.  It had like 20 teams, so scheduling would still be wildly imbalanced. 
But yeah, like in the 50s, Tulane was in the SEC and they had a different number of conference games every year.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2020, 01:06:20 AM »
HA!  So I'm totally randomly looking up 1977 Florida's schedule, to see if the Gators played any non-conference games vs SEC foes, and I find this Wikipedia gem:

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I  mean, that is RANDOM.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 03:53:11 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CWSooner

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2020, 01:15:16 AM »
Lebron gets around.
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FearlessF

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2020, 08:52:01 AM »
must be true

wasn't reported by CNN
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fezzador

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Re: Best Non-National Champ (Old-Timey Edition)
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2020, 09:12:49 AM »
It must have been some other LeBron James, because he wasn't even born until 1984.

 

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