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Topic: basketball scandal...

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Entropy

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2017, 09:45:38 AM »
Marq... not a lawyer, but is there more of a civil case here, rather than a federal?

btw.. regardless of the outcome, I'm glad the FBI is doing this.   The NCAA needs to decide what they care about and pick a direction.

847badgerfan

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2017, 09:50:50 AM »
Pretty sure it's Federal when state lines are crossed.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2017, 09:52:43 AM »
No, you are not. It depends on the group to whom you compare yourself.

You're an alum. I'm an alum.

Not every fan is that. And, in general, those are the fans who don't care about paying players based on the "million" conversations I've had with fans across the country, in my football travels.

Alums do care. Alums give money too. Like, the vast majority of it.
FWIW:  I am 100% with you and grillrat on this one.  
If they dropped amateurism rules I'm pretty sure my school would benefit more than most but it would destroy the idea of an even remotely level playing field.  
There are probably not more than a couple dozen schools with enough boosters to raise the kind of cash necessary to compete if it were just plain legalized as a bidding war.  Then you have a few more schools (OkSU for example) that might have one or a small number of boosters who might be willing to shell out a few million to get their school a NC.  Everybody else would be completely sidelined even worse than they already are.  

Entropy

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #59 on: September 29, 2017, 09:58:33 AM »
Pretty sure it's Federal when state lines are crossed.
I believe civil can cross state lines too..  Civil just doesn't involve the gov't. 

MarqHusker

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2017, 10:43:51 AM »
The US Attorney's Office (DOJ) can bring a civil suit , or it can seek a criminal indictment (usually by way of a grand jury).

The primary differences are these.
1.  A criminal case are offenses against the state (government).  remember victims (people) never 'press charges'.  The state or the government does this, sometimes against the victim's wishes (which may end up torpedoing the State's case).
2.. Burden of proof.  Civil actions have a lower burden (preponderance of the evidence),  Criminal has a higher burden (beyond a reasonable doubt).
3.  Punishment:  Only Criminal matters could result in the loss of a person's freedom, not to mention fines.  Civil, is either monetary damages, or a party stopped from doing something or forced to do something.
4. Criminal: right to trial by jury.  Civil, might have a jury trial, likely in front of a judge.
5. Criminal: defendant has right to counsel,  Civil:  no such right exists.
6. Defendants have much more constitutional protection in a criminal matter vs a civil matter.

The #1 reason this is a federal case is the nature of the alleged crime (wire fraud, and money laundering), and how/where the informants surfaced.   Could the US bring a civil suit against these people?  I suppose they could, I haven't really thought about that angle, and what their cause of action would be. 

MarqHusker

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2017, 10:51:46 AM »
I believe civil can cross state lines too..  Civil just doesn't involve the gov't.  
Absolutely civil can cross state lines, and yes Civil absolutely can involve the government.  About 1/2 the US Attorney's work is civil in nature.  Criminal cases may not be brought by private parties, but they certainly have access to the courts via Civil suits.
The topic of 'Subject Matter Jurisdiction' is the course you will want to take if you want to understand why some cases are in State court versus federal courts regarding civil cases.    It's a humdinger of a topic.    If you want a primer, google Erie Doctrine, or just subject matter jurisdiction.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2017, 11:18:08 AM »

You are bringing back lawschool memories!

847badgerfan

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2017, 11:22:34 AM »
We should start a feature board for people seeking legal advice. Half the proceeds to charity.
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Entropy

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2017, 12:07:12 PM »
thanks Marq for the clarity.    Health Law was part of the FACHE exam and while it focused mostly on federal acts, we also studied the difference between fraud and abuse.   Seems my memory was faulty on civil.. or it wasn't explicitly teased out and I assumed.  
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 12:15:09 PM by Entropy »

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2017, 12:37:58 PM »
I don't mind the kids getting paid.  I do mind it turning into a bidding war between boosters.  If I want to watch that, that's the NFL.
Thing is, it's not. The NFL has very specific rules about how the best players are introduced into the league (the draft), about how they move between teams regarding contracts, free agency, and the like. 
Essentially NFL teams don't HAVE to recruit the best players, they get to choose them during the draft. The only time you really have them "competing" for a player's services is when a player moves from a contract to free agency. Other than that, they're dealing with players who have been released from other teams or are traded (with contract) from other teams.

And on top of it all, there is a salary cap. So the rich big-market teams may be able to tell players in free agency that they might get more endorsement contracts, the big-market big-money teams can't just "buy" a roster based on having more money overall to devote to their roster than other teams.
Unless you put ALL of those things into the NCAA, it becomes the big-money schools having an EVEN MORE ridiculous advantage than they do today, and we'll see the little parity we have go today down the tubes.

MaximumSam

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2017, 02:25:01 PM »
I think playing players would lead to less competitive imbalance.  Right now, the top schools get nearly all of the top players.  If schools can pay, it would be too expensive to maintain that trend.  Certainly, the money rich schools would still have advantages, but not to the extend they have now.  

It would probably be more like baseball, where the top money teams still have clear advantages, but small market teams still compete but have less margin for error.

rook119

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2017, 09:43:25 PM »
I suppose after its all said and done the NCAA and respective schools will stop doing business with Adidas. 

oh wait. 

lol

847badgerfan

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Re: basketball scandal...
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2020, 10:53:40 AM »
Looks like the NCAA will hit Arizona today, with allegations.
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