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Tough comparison.  North Carolina has had multiple great coaches. Duke has had multiple very good coaches, but their one great coach elevated the program well above what MSU has.

Id put MSU in the Louisville tier, and we see how their last two hires have gone.

Oh I agree, just saying the general idea of trying to hire someone to replace a legend usually means settling for some program guy that the old coach likes. Reinventing the wheel is not attractive, and program guys aren't attractive, and you have to pick one. 

I mean, the team blows. That said, it's not even the worst OSU team in the last 10 years by the FancyStats. Though they can get there if they keep getting drilled. Like I've said, OSU fans have some magical thinking about how good a basketball program OSU has. We could be Nebraska pretty easily, where we have seasons like this and get excited about the future. Which isn't to say you roll with Holtmann until the end of time. The consistency that was his top hallmark certainly wasn't there this year.

I'm just not buying the fancy stats. This team sucks a lot worse than those suggest. I think part of it is a timing thing. This team was very good up through NYD. Even in the five game losing streak they were still statistically good but ever since the Iowa win, they are atrocious.

That is part of the problem: The longer these players spend with this staff, the worse they get. That fact is a horrible reflection on this staff.

You keep making comparisons like the Nebraska comparison above and I keep giving you the facts. You seem to ignore those. Ohio State's history in BB is VASTLY superior to Nebraska's. You call it "magical thinking" but you are flay wrong here.

#10 ranking 1949-2022:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/ap-poll-college-basketball-rankings-022230492.html

We aren't what we are in football but this program is pretty good historically. It is a lot better than what the current staff is capable of.

Nebraska/Ohio State program comparison:
NC's:

• 0 UNL
• 1 tOSU

FF4's:

• 0 UNL
• 11 tOSU

S16's:

• 0 UNL
• 15 tOSU

NCAA Appearances:

• 7 UNL
• 35 tOSU

League titles:

• 6 UNL
• 22 tOSU

I'm sorry @MaximumSam but making ridiculous statements that treat the tOSU program as nothing more than the Nebraska program doesn't contribute to a reasonable and rational discussion, it honestly was far to stupid of a comment to deserve a serious response but you set me up so I wanted to knock that out of the park with authority. 

If you can avoid stupid comments like that we can have a reasonable conversation. 

I'm sorry @MaximumSam but making ridiculous statements that treat the tOSU program as nothing more than the Nebraska program doesn't contribute to a reasonable and rational discussion, it honestly was far to stupid of a comment to deserve a serious response but you set me up so I wanted to knock that out of the park with authority. 

If you can avoid stupid comments like that we can have a reasonable conversation. 

Reading, what is it? I am saying that blowing up the program because they don't meet the highest standards is a good way to become irrelevant. As happened with the Nebraska FOOTBALL program. If you want to the OSU basketball program to turn into the Nebraska BASKETBALL program, then blow it up every year they don't do something they are supposed to do. 

Reading, what is it? I am saying that blowing up the program because they don't meet the highest standards is a good way to become irrelevant. As happened with the Nebraska FOOTBALL program. If you want to the OSU basketball program to turn into the Nebraska BASKETBALL program, then blow it up every year they don't do something they are supposed to do.

Sorry I misunderstood your earlier comment. You didn't say anything about football so it looked like you were saying that the Ohio State and Nebraska BB programs were equivalent which they obviously aren't. 

I am saying that blowing up the program because they don't meet the highest standards is a good way to become irrelevant.

Your concern about Ohio State BB becoming irrelevant is awfully tardy. They haven't won a league title or been to a S16 in over a decade. There is no need to fear them "becoming" irrelevant because they already are. 

Reading through everything:

-Ohio State basketball is amidst a historically awful season, losing 13 of their last 14 games.

-Is it bad enough to blow up and start over?

-Yes, but Holtmann's unwisely granted extension through 2027 makes him more difficult to fire.

-And with recruiting recently picking up (#8 class last year, #6 incoming) maybe there's hope? (But would current freshman pieces like Sensabaugh and Thornton even stick around?)

-Except Holtmann has underwhelmed with plenty going for Ohio State before. In fact, in year 6 now, Holtmann has had more than enough time, talent, and resources to prove himself better than Ohio State losing 13 of their last 14 games.

Exactly 

I’m trying to think of what record is just a “you gotta fire him unless the money just ain’t there.”

3-17 in conference feels like that spot. Maybe 5-15?

This is probably the key issue at this point.

Gene Smith probably doesn't want to pull the trigger because doing so will make it unavoidably obvious that the extension  he gave to Holtmann last year was a ridiculous mistake.

Your post, however, raises an interesting point. As this season continues to crater we are close to a point at which Smith will simply have no choice.

The Buckeyes are now 3-13/11-16 with the following remaining:

• Vs PSU
• Vs IL
• Vs UMD
• At MSU
• BTT

When the Buckeyes take the Court on Thursday it will have been more than a month since they won a game (1/21) and two weeks since they even looked somewhat competitive.

I think the PSU game may be key because it is the most winnable of the remaining games before the BTT. If they lose that one then the odds are that they will also lose the other three remaining regular season games and enter the BTT at 3-17/11-20.

Aa clueless as the Buckeyes have looked their last few times out, a final record of 3-17/11-21 as losers of 18 of their final 19 games is NOT unlikely. Nobody would defend the HC at that point right? Max?