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Topic: Basketball Coaching Carousel
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MaximumSam · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2023, 06:54:13 AM »

The team sucks.

Medina:

One game later and the team continues to suck.

Medina:

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2023, 09:53:14 AM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 10, 2023, 06:54:13 AM

The team sucks.

Medina:

One game later and the team continues to suck.

Medina:

As losses pile up it undermines your argument that this is merely a bad year.

This isn't merely a bad year it is a historically awful year from a coach who has never accomplished anything worth noting.

At this point the losses also undermine your talent argument. I know you hold a lower view of Ohio State's talent than I do but even you cannot possibly believe that this is the least talented roster in the league. Nonetheless, it is the worst team in the league.

The whole is less than the sum of the parts and that falls squarely on coaching.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2023, 10:44:35 AM »

With yet another close loss, Ohio State has expanded their "lead" as the "unluckiest" team per KenPom.

The Buckeyes have lost 10 of their last 11 with the 10 losses being:

OT at RU
2 vs PU
3 vs MN
3 at UNL
5 vs UW
6 vs NU
7 at UMD
8 at M
9 at IL
16 at IU

Only two of the Buckeyes' last 11 games were decided by double-digits, a 16 point win over Iowa and a 16 point loss to IU. The other nine were all single-digit losses.

The gap in KenPom's luck ranking between #363 (dead last or unluckiest) Ohio State and the field is stupendous. Their overall luck ranking runs from:

0.168 Maryland Eastern Shore, #1 luckiest team
0.090 Kansas, #24 luckiest team and luckiest major team
-0.152 East Tennessee State, #362 second unluckiest team
-0.196 Ohio State, #363 unluckiest team

The gap between Ohio State and the field is so large that $362 E. TN St is closer to #352 than they are to tOSU.

Basically, per KenPom's assessment of "luck", Ohio State is the unluckiest team in CBB by a staggering margin.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #31 on:** February 10, 2023, 11:09:44 AM »

Quote

As losses pile up it undermines your argument that this is merely a bad year

Uh, isn't that the definition of a bad year?

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 10, 2023, 11:51:58 AM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on February 10, 2023, 11:09:44 AM

Uh, isn't that the definition of a bad year?

Until a certain point, yes. Once you get beyond that it is no longer merely a bad year which even good coaches sometimes have. At a certain point it becomes a historically awful year.

This is no longer merely a bad year, it is historically awful. Even before the latest loss this was the worst stretch of Buckeye basketball since Jim O'Brien's first year.

Historically awful years only occurr in transitional years, ie a coach's first or last year. This year is historically awful and it isn't Holtmann's first. Thus, it is his last.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2023, 01:06:45 PM »

Quote

Historically awful years only ocurr in transitional years

A transition year, usually associated with lots of roster turnover and playing less about results on the court this year in the hopes of future success.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #34 on:** February 10, 2023, 01:15:48 PM »

I wonder if there’s an OSU booster willing to spring for it.

We’ll have a nice spot of Medina getting what he wants and Sam either being right or getting better basketball.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #35 on:** February 10, 2023, 02:58:26 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 10, 2023, 01:15:48 PM

I wonder if there’s an OSU booster willing to spring for it.

We’ll have a nice spot of Medina getting what he wants and Sam either being right or getting better basketball.

OSU boosters currently being torn between funding the athletic department and funding 17 year old defensive ends.

medinabuckeye1 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 10, 2023, 03:09:48 PM »

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-athletics/2023/02/137357/the-abstraction-of-statistics-makes-sports-memories-that-much-more-difficult-to-grasp

"However, the 20-win threshold, once a sacred barometer of how good a coach is at their job, has been meaningless for a while. Expanded schedules and a Challenger Deep list of cupcakes means that it's easier than ever for teams to hit that 20-win mark. It even becomes somewhat damning; Chris Holtmann might have 20 wins in each of his nine seasons prior to 2022-23, but it's also telling that he hasn't won more than 21 since 2017-18. 20 wins isn't an achievement, it's the bare minimum that a program with significant postseason aspirations should expect from their coach."

"Underachieving men's basketball coach limps into March Madness for a few years in a row and gets bounced almost immediately".

Emphasis added.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #37 on:** February 11, 2023, 12:24:35 AM »

Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on February 10, 2023, 03:09:48 PM

"However, the 20-win threshold, once a sacred barometer of how good a coach is at their job, has been meaningless for a while. Expanded schedules and a Challenger Deep list of cupcakes means that it's easier than ever for teams to hit that 20-win mark."

This doesn't totally seem true?

You have more games, but also more conference games. If anything, it feels like there are fewer cupcakes than their used to be, at least as a UW fan. Between the holiday tournament, Big Ten-ACC, a rivalry game, UW had like five cupcakes scheduled, six if you want to include Stanford.

Back in 2007 and 2008, they were at like 7-8.

Now I get it with Holtmann to a degree. 20-21 wins with weird mid-season swoons and no pizazz moments will bore and irk some folks. But this thesis is not very correct. At worst, it's a push, maybe harder to get to 20 as a P5 team.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #38 on:** February 12, 2023, 07:31:06 AM »

Is Wes Miller a good coach? Maybe Fickell can bring him to Madison?

bayareabadger · « **Reply #39 on:** February 12, 2023, 08:56:43 AM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 12, 2023, 07:31:06 AM

Is Wes Miller a good coach? Maybe Fickell can bring him to Madison?

Was very good at UNC Greensboro, isn’t trending toward making the tournament at Cincinnati for a second year in a row.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #40 on:** February 12, 2023, 10:44:03 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 11, 2023, 12:24:35 AM

This doesn't totally seem true?

You have more games, but also more conference games. If anything, it feels like there are fewer cupcakes than their used to be, at least as a UW fan. Between the holiday tournament, Big Ten-ACC, a rivalry game, UW had like five cupcakes scheduled, six if you want to include Stanford.

Back in 2007 and 2008, they were at like 7-8.

Now I get it with Holtmann to a degree. 20-21 wins with weird mid-season swoons and no pizazz moments will bore and irk some folks. But this thesis is not very correct. At worst, it's a push, maybe harder to get to 20 as a P5 team.

Yeah, agree here. Also, the transfer portal would seem to push all the talent towards the mean. Sort of like how the Big Ten has ten teams of basically the same quality.

ELA · « **Reply #41 on:** February 12, 2023, 12:45:34 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on February 11, 2023, 12:24:35 AM

This doesn't totally seem true?

You have more games, but also more conference games. If anything, it feels like there are fewer cupcakes than their used to be, at least as a UW fan. Between the holiday tournament, Big Ten-ACC, a rivalry game, UW had like five cupcakes scheduled, six if you want to include Stanford.

Back in 2007 and 2008, they were at like 7-8.

Now I get it with Holtmann to a degree. 20-21 wins with weird mid-season swoons and no pizazz moments will bore and irk some folks. But this thesis is not very correct. At worst, it's a push, maybe harder to get to 20 as a P5 team.

Agreed. MSU only scheduled 4 mid-majors this year (Northern Arizona, Brown, Oakland, Buffalo)

We played a 5th, but only because Portland upset Villanova, so we wound up playing them, not Villanova, in the 5th place game in our holiday tournament.

MSU always gets credit for playing a tough schedule, but in the last year of the 16 game Big Ten schedule (2007), MSU still had 12 mid-majors scheduled. They went into Big Ten play 13-2, and unranked.

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Topic: Basketball Coaching Carousel

MaximumSam

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medinabuckeye1

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medinabuckeye1

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MaximumSam

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medinabuckeye1

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bayareabadger

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847badgerfan

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ELA

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