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Topic: B1G Power Rankings, week 2

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2022, 04:40:37 PM »
Nit all cupcakes are equal. 

We never learn…..
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Mdot21

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2022, 04:43:53 PM »
updated rankings...

1) Ohio State 
2) Michigan
3) Michigan State 
4) Penn State 
5) Purdue 
6) Wisconsin 
7) Minnesota
8) Maryland
9) Iowa 
10) Rutgers 
11) Illinois 
12) Northwestern 
13) Indiana 
14) Nebraska


flipped Sparty and Penn State because: James Franklin. I'm half expecting Penn State to lose a close one score game on the road to Auburn....because: James Franklin. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2022, 08:41:48 AM »
My thoughts exactly. Ohio State will drop to 0-3 ATS so far this year unless they demolish Toledo. One or two is maybe random but 0-3 ATS is definitely a trend. Then there are the other contenders to consider:
  • Michigan: They haven't proven anything either way so far and that is unlikely to change until at least October 1 (Iowa) and with the look of Iowa's offense we might not get a real look at Michigan until October 15 (PSU).
  • Penn State: I don't feel confident in my assessment of Purdue yet so I'm not sure if I should ding PSU for the close win or credit them for the road win and beating up MAC teams is expected of top (or even middling) B1G teams so the win over the Bobcats proves nothing. Now if they walk into Jordan-Hare and beat the daylights out of the Tigers, I'll definitely move them to #1.
  • Michigan State: They have two blowout wins but they are over two MAC teams so I don't think we know yet. If they walk into Husky Stadium and beat the daylights out of the Huskies I'll probably move them up but I'm not sure how much because I'm not yet sure how good Washington is either. That said, road wins on the West Coast aren't common for B1G teams.
  • Minnesota: They are 2-0 with two blowout wins but their two opponents are a combined 0-5 and this week's opponent is 0-2 so it is not unlikely that after this weekend the Gophers will be 3-0 against three teams that are a combined 0-10. Minnesota isn't going to get a chance to prove anything until they travel to East Lansing next weekend.
  • The only other undefeated teams in the B1G are the rest of the teams in the B1G-E but I feel reasonably confident that while Indiana, Rutgers, and/or Maryland may be better than some of the teams above, they probably aren't better than all of them.


So you do realize that ATS is meaninglessness right?  At least it should be in someone’s power rankings.

It is nothing more than a random number generated for gambling, intended to bring in money from both sides of a bet on a football game.

in fact the theory is if done correctly most teams should end up right around .500 against the spread. For example the two national championship participants last season, Georgia and Alabama were 8-5 and 7-6 against the spread. 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2022, 10:25:30 AM »
So you do realize that ATS is meaninglessness right?  At least it should be in someone’s power rankings.

It is nothing more than a random number generated for gambling, intended to bring in money from both sides of a bet on a football game.

in fact the theory is if done correctly most teams should end up right around .500 against the spread. For example the two national championship participants last season, Georgia and Alabama were 8-5 and 7-6 against the spread.
I do, and I'm not even a gambler. I'm just using it here as a rough (and I DO realize that it is ROUGH) proxy for overperformance/underperformance.

I think it generally works that way. For example, Bama was favored over Texas by three TD's and won by one point on a FG as time expired. That WAS an underperformance by Bama and an overperformance by Texas and accordingly:
  • Bama dropped a spot in the National rankings despite the win, and
  • Texas jumped up into the rankings despite the loss.

Similarly, Ohio State was favored over Notre Dame by about two TD's and won by marginally less than that and dropped.


Understand that my power rankings each week are based on the previous week's rankings plus a bump up for teams that perform above my expectations or a bump down for teams that perform below my expectations.

So far this year, Ohio State has performed slightly below my expectations. As we discussed previously, I thought that Notre Dame was an insanely overrated team so I didn't really look at that win as a top-5 win, I looked at it as a decent win, not great. I honestly don't know much about Arkansas State but they were abysmal last year so I expected a VERY easy win, easier than what we saw.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2022, 11:12:46 AM »
Yeah, how was Notre Dame in the top 5 with a new HC and a new QB? That always seemed a little weird. That's higher than any of BK's teams were ever pre-season ranked, and he was the winningest HC in school history. Freeman is completely green. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2022, 11:48:01 AM »
I do, and I'm not even a gambler. I'm just using it here as a rough (and I DO realize that it is ROUGH) proxy for overperformance/underperformance.

I think it generally works that way. For example, Bama was favored over Texas by three TD's and won by one point on a FG as time expired. That WAS an underperformance by Bama and an overperformance by Texas and accordingly:
  • Bama dropped a spot in the National rankings despite the win, and
  • Texas jumped up into the rankings despite the loss.

Similarly, Ohio State was favored over Notre Dame by about two TD's and won by marginally less than that and dropped.


Understand that my power rankings each week are based on the previous week's rankings plus a bump up for teams that perform above my expectations or a bump down for teams that perform below my expectations.

So far this year, Ohio State has performed slightly below my expectations. As we discussed previously, I thought that Notre Dame was an insanely overrated team so I didn't really look at that win as a top-5 win, I looked at it as a decent win, not great. I honestly don't know much about Arkansas State but they were abysmal last year so I expected a VERY easy win, easier than what we saw.
They did win easily against Arkansas St. and that’s a perfect sample of why the pointspread is total garbage.
The only two players that had any success for Arkansas State were the quarterback, who success was very minor, but was a multiyear starter at Florida State. And they had one receiver who made some nice pllays-who was 1000 yard receiver last year at Oregon State. That’s a team is loaded with division one transfers and Ohio State wiped the floor with them. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Abba

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2022, 11:54:01 AM »
Although I agree these point spreads that are over 30 are kind of pointless to worry about, that game did remain somewhat competitive into the early 3rd quarter.  Once the score was 38-9, it doesn't really matter after that if they cover the spread or not.  The remainder of the game falls into the garbage time slot, which is something that SP+ tracks (or rather doesn't track) very well.  But it was 24-9 at halftime, and I think you can definitely argue that it was disappointing that the game was still in question at that point.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2022, 12:02:15 PM »
They did win easily against Arkansas St. and that’s a perfect sample of why the pointspread is total garbage.
The only two players that had any success for Arkansas State were the quarterback, who success was very minor, but was a multiyear starter at Florida State. And they had one receiver who made some nice pllays-who was 1000 yard receiver last year at Oregon State. That’s a team is loaded with division one transfers and Ohio State wiped the floor with them. 
And to be fair it is ALWAYS difficult to evaluate the scale of a beat down of an obviously very inferior opponent which is why I have no idea what to think of the Wolverines. They are a lot like Minnesota. The Wolverines are 2-0 against two teams that are a combined 0-5 and this week's opponent is 1-2 and the one win came against an FCS team that remains winless. Thus, there is a not unlikely possibility that Michigan will move to 3-0 this weekend against teams that are a combined 0-10 against FBS opponents. 

I don't mean that to pick on Michigan and I'm not saying that they suck, I'm merely saying that we really don't know and I think nearly all of us can agree on that. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2022, 12:12:02 PM »
Although I agree these point spreads that are over 30 are kind of pointless to worry about, that game did remain somewhat competitive into the early 3rd quarter.  Once the score was 38-9, it doesn't really matter after that if they cover the spread or not.  The remainder of the game falls into the garbage time slot, which is something that SP+ tracks (or rather doesn't track) very well.  But it was 24-9 at halftime, and I think you can definitely argue that it was disappointing that the game was still in question at that point.
I agree and to be honest I didn't even watch so what you said above was the extent of my analysis and I use the same measurement that you used above:
  • At what point was the game no longer in doubt?
I don't care if the favorite gave up some late points to make it look close or scored some late points to make it look like a blowout. I care when the favorite effectively ended the game. Against a team as terrible as I *THINK* ArSt is, I *THINK* that should have been in the first half.

That said, @Honestbuckeye makes a good point about transfers so maybe the Red Wolves are better than I'm giving them credit for, give it a few weeks and we'll know a lot more.


Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2022, 12:15:26 PM »
Although I agree these point spreads that are over 30 are kind of pointless to worry about, that game did remain somewhat competitive into the early 3rd quarter.  Once the score was 38-9, it doesn't really matter after that if they cover the spread or not.  The remainder of the game falls into the garbage time slot, which is something that SP+ tracks (or rather doesn't track) very well.  But it was 24-9 at halftime, and I think you can definitely argue that it was disappointing that the game was still in question at that point.
I could not disagree more. It wasn’t disappointing at all.  Ohio State was up 14 to nothing within minutes but had their punt return touchdown called back by some obscure penalty about leaping over the blocking wedge or something like that?  Basically, they never let their opponents even sniff the end zone. The game was never in question. People forget football games are 60 minutes not 1/4 or 1/2. This holier than thou pointspread is based on 60 minutes.

it’s funny how people overreact when a team favored by 30 is only up by 15 at halftime. 
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Abba

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2022, 12:18:23 PM »
I consider 15 points at halftime to still be in doubt.  I know the Buckeyes came back from 21-7 at halftime vs. Wisconsin a few years ago.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2022, 12:34:07 PM »
I consider 15 points at halftime to still be in doubt.  I know the Buckeyes came back from 21-7 at halftime vs. Wisconsin a few years ago.
Sure if it’s two top-notch teams are two equally matched teams, I would agree. But when one team can’t seem to stop the other team and that same team can’t move the ball into the end zone it’s pretty apparent that the results are not going to change
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Abba

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2022, 12:54:12 PM »
I guess I didn't really feel like they were a threat to actually win, but it was competitive enough that I wasn't ready for the backups to go in until the Buckeyes were up by 4 TDs.  If the Buckeyes can put Toledo (a much better team) away by mid 3rd-quarter, then I wouldn't be disappointed.  If Stroud has to play the entire game and Toledo is hanging around down by 14-17 into the 4th quarter, then I would say they haven't performed up to expectations.  We saw what the Buckeyes could do last year as they put really good teams (Michigan State 49-0, Purdue 35-7) away quickly last year.  Haven't seen that yet this year, so can just go by what we've seen so far.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: B1G Power Rankings, week 2
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2022, 01:14:40 PM »
It's always going to be close early though, because the teams start out tied and you can only score 7 at a time.
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

 

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