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Topic: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #210 on: November 06, 2019, 01:37:46 PM »
Real restaurants make plenty of great burgers.

Fast food restaurants, not so much. 

I'm a big fan of a thin diner-style patty that actually has flavor on its own.  I can do without the creamy spreads, that's pretty gross, but a little mustard works.  I haven't ever had a fast food burger that approaches good diner burgers, and then there's the steak chophouse style thick burgers that are also quite delicious and zero fast food restaurants I can think of really even attempt that style.
Of course they don't attempt that style. Real restaurant burgers are often >$10 [including fries, no drink]. Even fast casual places like Five Guys are much more expensive than In-N-Out. Diners as well, much more expensive than In-N-Out.

While you deride In-N-Out, and you're absolutely wrong on that front, I would note that according to the web site for P Terry's their burgers, despite being in a much lower cost-of-living / rent location than most In-N-Out locations, are even more expensive than In-N-Out. That's surprising.

But while I'm not going to say anything positively or negatively on P Terry's [as I've never been there], this is why I highlight how wrong it is to compare In-N-Out to restaurant burgers, fast casual burgers, or diner burgers. The proper comparison is to a Big Mac, or a Whopper, or a Wendy's burger, i.e. other fast food burgers at a similar price point. In-N-Out mops the floor with all of them. 

utee94

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #211 on: November 06, 2019, 01:38:05 PM »
I'll add that there are some dishes that I can't/won't make at home, either because they're too difficult or too time consuming or I can't get proper access to the raw ingredients or all three.

Sushi, I don't do at home.

And pho-- I've tried many times to reproduce that broth, and I just can't nail it down.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #212 on: November 06, 2019, 01:46:09 PM »
Lots of differences.  Restaurants, especially fast food ones, tend to season down to the lowest common denominator.  So their food ends up bland, by design.

Also, quality control.  Fast food restaurants are making dozens or scores of burgers at a time.  I'm making 4 patties for my family, or maybe 10-12 if we have guests.  I'm able to take much more care in forming, seasoning, and cooking those patties, than any restaurant can.

For any home cook that knows what he's doing, it's not difficult at all to make better food than a restaurant can.  We've actually discussed this concept quite a bit on this forum over the years (decades).
I do agree with you that I can make most things better at home than I get at restaurants. It's kind of annoying, actually, when I try to go out for a fancy date with my wife, drop a lot of coin on a fancy dinner, and we both walk away from it realizing we paid WAY too much money for something we could do equally at home.


utee94

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #213 on: November 06, 2019, 01:46:50 PM »
Of course they don't attempt that style. Real restaurant burgers are often >$10 [including fries, no drink]. Even fast casual places like Five Guys are much more expensive than In-N-Out. Diners as well, much more expensive than In-N-Out.

While you deride In-N-Out, and you're absolutely wrong on that front, I would note that according to the web site for P Terry's their burgers, despite being in a much lower cost-of-living / rent location than most In-N-Out locations, are even more expensive than In-N-Out. That's surprising.

But while I'm not going to say anything positively or negatively on P Terry's [as I've never been there], this is why I highlight how wrong it is to compare In-N-Out to restaurant burgers, fast casual burgers, or diner burgers. The proper comparison is to a Big Mac, or a Whopper, or a Wendy's burger, i.e. other fast food burgers at a similar price point. In-N-Out mops the floor with all of them.

P Terry's cheeseburger is $2.85.  InO is $2.40.  I mean, technically you're right, but that's pretty comparable.

As to the rest of your statement, I have no idea what you're talking about? P Terry's is a local Austin chain, and they have a location on Barton Springs and a location on Congress, either of which have rent/cost of living that is probably double anywhere that InO has a location.  InOs are typically in strip centers in the burbs around this town, aside from one that's on a seedy section of Airport Blvd, and one that's on The Drag next to UT campus.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #214 on: November 06, 2019, 02:07:00 PM »
P Terry's cheeseburger is $2.85.  InO is $2.40.  I mean, technically you're right, but that's pretty comparable.

As to the rest of your statement, I have no idea what you're talking about? P Terry's is a local Austin chain, and they have a location on Barton Springs and a location on Congress, either of which have rent/cost of living that is probably double anywhere that InO has a location.  InOs are typically in strip centers in the burbs around this town, aside from one that's on a seedy section of Airport Blvd, and one that's on The Drag next to UT campus.
I think prices have gone up here, actually... It's very close. I think from my look at the P Terry's web site it was about $0.10 more expensive, so it's even closer than you describe. 

I think in general EVERYTHING in California is more expensive than pretty much anywhere else I travel. Part of that is due to the cost of land, but also due to all the costs of wages, taxes, etc.

But the point was that trying to compare In-N-Out to other burgers is hard because price point is often forgotten. I'm not trying to compare to P Terry's as I've never eaten it. So I don't know if the differences you highlight are a matter of quality or cooking skill, or if the differences are a matter of taste. 

MaximumSam

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #215 on: November 06, 2019, 02:53:19 PM »
Lots of differences.  Restaurants, especially fast food ones, tend to season down to the lowest common denominator.  So their food ends up bland, by design.

Also, quality control.  Fast food restaurants are making dozens or scores of burgers at a time.  I'm making 4 patties for my family, or maybe 10-12 if we have guests.  I'm able to take much more care in forming, seasoning, and cooking those patties, than any restaurant can.

For any home cook that knows what he's doing, it's not difficult at all to make better food than a restaurant can.  We've actually discussed this concept quite a bit on this forum over the years (decades).

My brisket is better than Aaron Franklin's-- not because I'm a better cook, but because I'm typically only cooking one or two briskets
at a time, I'm selecting the meat myself, I'm doing all the trimming myself, I'm controlling the temperature on a much smaller pit that has fewer hot spots, I'm checking for doneness at more carefully calculated times, I'm pulling it at exactly the right time, I'm letting it rest for the right amount of time, and perhaps most importantly, I'm slicing it for my family and friends' pleasure, with absolutely zero worries about meat costs and yields, so I can easily toss the bits that don't meet my quality standard, while restaurants will often serve them anyway because they have to worry about yield and profit margins.

No I mean between a diner style burger and a freshly griddled burger

Kris60

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #216 on: November 06, 2019, 05:06:13 PM »
I had always heard about how good In N Out burgers were.  So, a few years ago I was in Anaheim for a work conference and my company had In N Out cater an after hours cocktail hour.  I was really disappointed.  I mean, they were fine and I ate a couple but it wasn’t anything special.  Maybe I had just built it up too much in my mind and it wasn’t going to meet that expectation. I don’t remember it being any better than a Dave’s double from Wendy’s (which is a fast food burger I really like).

As an aside, I unapologetically like fast food.  I know all the reasons I shouldn’t but I do.  I probably eat some type of fast food at least once a week.  Don’t judge me.

Also, I typically like restaurant food over what I make at home.  I just like going out to eat.  My wife and I have never been big bar or nightclub people.  When we have a date night we typically go to a local place and have dinner and couple of drinks.  We actually prefer sitting at the bar rather than the dining room because the bar kind of overlooks the dining room and we can sit there and people watch and catch whatever sporting event is playing on the TVs over the bar.

Then, we will leave there and go to another local place, sit at the bar there, share a dessert, and have a couple of after dinner drinks.  Food is the one of the few things I’m totally ok overpaying for. 

utee94

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #217 on: November 06, 2019, 05:19:07 PM »
I think prices have gone up here, actually... It's very close. I think from my look at the P Terry's web site it was about $0.10 more expensive, so it's even closer than you describe.

I think in general EVERYTHING in California is more expensive than pretty much anywhere else I travel. Part of that is due to the cost of land, but also due to all the costs of wages, taxes, etc.

But the point was that trying to compare In-N-Out to other burgers is hard because price point is often forgotten. I'm not trying to compare to P Terry's as I've never eaten it. So I don't know if the differences you highlight are a matter of quality or cooking skill, or if the differences are a matter of taste.
Yeah,  realize you wouldn't have had the chance to try out P Terry's.  But I brought it up because it IS a fast food place, just a local chain instead of a national one, that serves a similar style of burger with a similar value proposition-- inexpensive food made from fresh ingredients.  I honestly give props to InO for that, it's definitely a step above your typical McD or BK or whatever.  I suspect the main difference isn't quality or cooking skill, but rather a matter of a local chain not needing to blandify their food/customer experience for a national audience.  The beef at P Terry's is fresh and really good so it might be a contributor, but not sure how much.

So I'm certainly not trying to compare InO to a real restaurant, and compared to McD's and BK I'd agree it's better.  But that's not saying much, because those places are really really really bad.

My preference is definitely for Whataburger, but I'll readily admit that on price it's not comparable, because a cheeseburger at Whataburger is $3.84, a dollar more, or 35% more in percentage.


WhiskeyM

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #218 on: November 06, 2019, 05:43:01 PM »
I think Culver's has a pretty good fast food burger.  I guess they may be more fast casual.  Starting at $2.79 for a standard single patty "butterburger". 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #219 on: November 06, 2019, 05:46:16 PM »
I had always heard about how good In N Out burgers were.  So, a few years ago I was in Anaheim for a work conference and my company had In N Out cater an after hours cocktail hour.  I was really disappointed.  I mean, they were fine and I ate a couple but it wasn’t anything special.  Maybe I had just built it up too much in my mind and it wasn’t going to meet that expectation. I don’t remember it being any better than a Dave’s double from Wendy’s (which is a fast food burger I really like).
Well, I don't ever think it's fair to judge anything by catering.

There's a big difference between a burger that had been sitting in a warming tray for the last 45 minutes because they had to prep them in bulk for a huge crowd, and a burger freshly cooked and eaten immediately. 

MaximumSam

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #220 on: November 06, 2019, 06:18:02 PM »
I've never been to an In n Out but I did just try griddling patties in mustard and that made for a tasty burger. BTW, I will stan for thin burgers over thick anytime anywhere. A good burger is about texture.

utee94

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #221 on: November 06, 2019, 06:28:23 PM »
No I mean between a diner style burger and a freshly griddled burger
Oh ok.  I wasn't trying to make any distinction there so my apologies if I was misleading.

Most diners I've been to do indeed griddle their burgers on a flat top. They're not all necessarily "thin" but they're certainly thinner than steak/chophouse style or those big things at a Chilis or Red Robin or something.

Incidentally, many of my favorite burgers come from Tex-Mex places.  Something about the way their flattops get seasoned over time turns out fantastic gringo food.  Their bacon and eggs from their gringo breakfasts are tops, too.




Brutus Buckeye

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #222 on: November 06, 2019, 06:38:45 PM »
Is In N Out flame broiled? It had a little bit of a Burger Kingy essence when I had it. A lot better than BK, but definitely some form of commonality in the flavor.
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Kris60

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Re: And the Scarlet Knight Stands Alone (SOC 11/2/19)
« Reply #223 on: November 06, 2019, 06:52:04 PM »
Well, I don't ever think it's fair to judge anything by catering.

There's a big difference between a burger that had been sitting in a warming tray for the last 45 minutes because they had to prep them in bulk for a huge crowd, and a burger freshly cooked and eaten immediately.
That’s a fair point.

 

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