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Topic: All Time Best Numbers (uPDATED)

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SFBadger96

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #70 on: June 13, 2018, 08:06:27 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2018, 07:51:24 PM

1 - Stanford's coach in 1982 must've been a dumbshit  
Well, he wasn't very good, that's for sure.
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Kris61

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #71 on: June 13, 2018, 08:08:32 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2018, 08:01:28 PM
I was thinking Arrington, but then I wondered, is having a Heisman a trump card?  I say no, because Heismans are only awarded to 3 positions.  
I think they can be but every Heisman season is different.  Spurrier’s wasn’t so mind blowing that it shoots him to the top, IMO.  Especially considering his college career overall was just ok.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2018, 08:08:48 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on June 13, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
All good players. Best at their position for their number? No (except maybe Cutler?). Henne, Ramsay, and Matthews--particularly Matthews--are pretty much the opposite of Elway: they received the attention they did because they were on good teams, not bad ones (don't get me wrong, anybody who can earn an NFL paycheck is a freak of nature). Don't know why you have Tuitama and Stenstrom on there.  I edited my post so you might understand better. No one called them all-worldly in college. Good? Yes. The kind of accolades Elway got? Not even close.

Cutler is a good comparison, though, and maybe does belong as the #6 representative. Got a better one?

Best at his college number? Elway was better in college than Wuerffel. I have no problem reaching that conclusion. Florida 1993-1996 was much better than Stanford 1979-1982, though.  You have a claim.  And a lack of evidence, imo.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2018, 08:09:20 PM »
Quote from: Kris61 on June 13, 2018, 08:08:32 PM
I think they can be but every Heisman season is different.  Spurrier’s wasn’t so mind blowing that it shoots him to the top, IMO.  Especially considering his college career overall was just ok.
Already changed it to Arrington.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Kris61

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #74 on: June 13, 2018, 08:11:19 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on June 13, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
All good players. Best at their position for their number? No (except maybe Cutler?). Henne, Ramsay, and Matthews--particularly Matthews--are pretty much the opposite of Elway: they received the attention they did because they were on good teams, not bad ones (don't get me wrong, anybody who can earn an NFL paycheck is a freak of nature). Don't know why you have Tuitama and Stenstrom on there. No one called them all-worldly in college. Good? Yes. The kind of accolades Elway got? Not even close.

Cutler is a good comparison, though, and maybe does belong as the #6 representative. Got a better one?

Best at his college number? Elway was better in college than Wuerffel. I have no problem reaching that conclusion. Florida 1993-1996 was much better than Stanford 1979-1982, though.
Yes, Baker Mayfield belongs at #6 and it ain’t close.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2018, 08:12:12 PM »
Why isn't there a role-reversal here for #22?  I'd love to stick Emmitt Smith on there, but I acknowledge his college career, while great, wasn't all-time best.  It's funny, I have a bias apparently, but I'm not advocating for a Gator great who had a HOF pro career.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 08:16:32 PM by OrangeAfroMan »
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SFBadger96

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2018, 08:13:18 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2018, 07:44:28 PM


These are not bad QBs.  They're really good.  But they're not Danny Wuerffel.  They're not the best player ever who wore their jersey number.  
Neither was Danny Wuerffel. :)
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2018, 08:13:40 PM »
I think I default to early 90s players, because that's who I probably have on a pedestal.  I definitely have a recency bias against players who are fresh in my mind.

Much like baseball HOF voters have a 1980s blind spot.
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SFBadger96

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2018, 08:14:13 PM »
Quote from: Kris61 on June 13, 2018, 08:11:19 PM
Yes, Baker Mayfield belongs at #6 and it ain’t close.
Yeah, that makes sense.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2018, 08:15:40 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on June 13, 2018, 08:13:18 PM
Neither was Danny Wuerffel. :)
If you don't stop it, I'm going to throw someone like Eric Crouch on the list !!!!
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #80 on: June 13, 2018, 08:17:05 PM »
Quote from: Kris61 on June 13, 2018, 08:11:19 PM
Yes, Baker Mayfield belongs at #6 and it ain’t close.
But he won too much.....:djparty:
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SFBadger96

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #81 on: June 13, 2018, 09:28:31 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on June 13, 2018, 08:13:40 PM
I think I default to early 90s players, because that's who I probably have on a pedestal.  I definitely have a recency bias against players who are fresh in my mind.

Much like baseball HOF voters have a 1980s blind spot.
Honestly, I think this accounts for your view of Elway. You knew him as a pro, not a collegiate player. Oddly, I followed very little of his pro career (though obviously I was aware of it). But he was really turning heads when he was in college.
That said, if he wore 15 or some other an number that is impacted with tons of the college greats, I wouldn't put him on the list. I just never thought of Wuerfful as the same kind of dominating as a guy like Manning, or Tebow, or Frazier (Wuerfful was obviously a better passer than those last two).  As another reference, if Brady and Wuerfful had worn the same number, I wouldn't have Brady in the discussion, even though he may be the NFL's GOAT.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #82 on: June 13, 2018, 09:56:29 PM »
I'm a stats guy.  I'm aware Elway was thought of as a good runner, but he had negative rushing yardage every year in college (sacks).  Guys like Drew Brees even had a 500-yard rushing season - they took that skill and made it a positive that could be measured.  

Just as Raghib Ismail may not belong at #25, I definitely have a halo effect for him EVEN WHILE KNOWING HE ONLY SCORED 15 CAREER TDs, I just feel you have a similar effect with Elway.  I don't doubt for a minute that the consensus at the time was that he was an all-world great player, both ability and production-wise.  

But Wuerffel has better Heisman/awards data AND better passing data (both rate and percentage).  For me, that's it - case closed.  

Along the same lines, I don't think Randy Moss should stay on the list.  He had 2 huge years at a G5-type school.  He was good enough to play at ND or FSU, but he screwed up and ended up at Marshall.  So his highlights are vs Army and Ball State instead of Michigan and Miami.  His NFL HOF exploits shall not be taken into account, and his college production takes a hit due to the schedule he faced.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All Time Best Numbers
« Reply #83 on: June 13, 2018, 10:45:16 PM »
Please vote on the polls I created.  We'll do 4 numbers every 4 days, if people participate.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier
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