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Topic: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center

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Cincydawg

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #294 on: March 09, 2025, 11:22:21 AM »
I had a notion when I was working that folks would go after promotions even if they included a salary cut.  The status of being director or VP was enormous.  The extra compensation was an additional perk.  One could argue which was more motivating.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #295 on: March 09, 2025, 05:56:22 PM »
I'm not saying you're wrong, just sayin, we don't seem to have a shortage of candidates
We don't, but:
  • For the kinds of people with sufficient qualifications that you want them in Congress, it is a paycut.  
  • Would there be less temptation to corruption and graft if they were paid more in line with the job?  
  • Are we getting the best candidates or just getting candidates?  Congressional salaries are such a miniscule portion of the Federal Budget that if we doubled them and the more well paid Congresspeople cut 0.01% of fraud/waste/abuse out of the overall budget it would be a net positive for the Country.  


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #296 on: March 10, 2025, 09:27:12 AM »
 it's the status, having people cater to you, being "important", feeling like you're somebody.  You walk around and people notice, you have a staff getting you coffee, etc.

And there is a lot of etc.
That sounds awful.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #297 on: March 10, 2025, 09:29:52 AM »
Paying a lot more would draw in more effective people, but also more people just wanting that status and a fatter check. 

Is getting both worth either?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2025, 09:55:06 AM by OrangeAfroMan »
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #298 on: March 10, 2025, 09:52:01 AM »
We don't, but:
  • For the kinds of people with sufficient qualifications that you want them in Congress, it is a paycut. 
  • Would there be less temptation to corruption and graft if they were paid more in line with the job? 
  • Are we getting the best candidates or just getting candidates?  Congressional salaries are such a miniscule portion of the Federal Budget that if we doubled them and the more well paid Congresspeople cut 0.01% of fraud/waste/abuse out of the overall budget it would be a net positive for the Country. 


1. - I'm ok with that.  It's a service position
2. - very little less, not enough to matter to most
3. - Only 3 or 4 things are not such a miniscule portion of the Federal Budget.  I'm sure Elon isn't getting paid too much to cut a helluva lot more than 0.01%
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Cincydawg

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #299 on: March 10, 2025, 10:02:18 AM »
As noted, for various reasons I'm not at all sure that paying say a million a year would attract more qualified candidates.  For one thing, incumbents have a very strong advantage anyway that would persist.  The status thing is greater than any salary considerations for most.

847badgerfan

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #300 on: March 10, 2025, 10:03:32 AM »
Insider trading.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Gigem

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #301 on: March 12, 2025, 08:24:37 AM »
FWIW, I've made the argument before that I think Congresspeople are underpaid.  Per my quick google (could be wrong), they make $174k/yr which is just not much given the job that they do. 

I think the biggest issue for Congresspeople is not so much their home cost of living but their distance from DC.  A VERY few congresspeople live close enough to DC to actually commute from home so they only have to maintain ONE residence.  The rest need to maintain two residences and that is obviously pretty expensive on just $174k/yr. 

We have a similar issue here in Ohio.  The base salary for a Representative in Ohio is $71,099.  They do get extra for committee chairs but I don't think that is all that big of a deal. 

If you are a lawyer who lives and works in the Columbus area, this is a REALLY good deal.  Your firm will generally give you a lot of leeway because there is prestige value in having an Ohio Rep as a partner and you can commute to the Capitol and still work some at your firm. 

If you are say a farmer or plant manager from Ashtabula, this sucks.  You are a three hour commute from the Statehouse, you can't really do your job at home because you are away too much, and you basically need a second home in Columbus. 
One question I've always had is how do congressmen (and women) pay their staffs?  Is there an allotment for them?  Are they federal employees, volunteers?  I honestly have no idea. 

I think the $174K is way too low myself, but can you imagine the blowback if they were really paid what they probably deserve, which is probably more like $300,000 per year?  Surely it would have to be more than $200K.  The average person, making $40-60k a year would not like that at all. 

FearlessF

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #302 on: March 12, 2025, 08:39:20 AM »
was talk and maybe something done about Referee and officials salaries in the NFL a while back - the though was to pay them enough for that to be their fulltime job and it would increase performance

being on the small town - city council here doesn't pay much.  They usually don't have many candidates and have to beg someone to take the job.  It could pay double or triple and I'm not interested.  It's a service that someone needs to step up and do for the community.  For the right reasons, not for the money.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #303 on: March 12, 2025, 08:50:36 AM »
One question I've always had is how do congressmen (and women) pay their staffs?  Is there an allotment for them?  Are they federal employees, volunteers?  I honestly have no idea.
There is an allotment.  Each Congressperson has a staff budget then the committees (or at least some of the committees) have staffers beyond that.  So if you have some seniority you have not only your own staff but you also effectively control committee staff as well.  

I think the Paige position is basically volunteer but I honestly don't know.  I believe that the typical congressperson has DC staff and also local staff.  
I think the $174K is way too low myself, but can you imagine the blowback if they were really paid what they probably deserve, which is probably more like $300,000 per year?  Surely it would have to be more than $200K.  The average person, making $40-60k a year would not like that at all.
Yeah, that is why it doesn't happen but I think that is not a good thing.  Underpaying Congress means that you generally limit yourself to one of two types of people:
  • People who don't have better options, and
  • People who are independently wealthy.  
I don't think it is a good idea for Congress to be made up of people who aren't competent enough to earn that much on their own and trust fund babies.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #304 on: March 12, 2025, 08:53:34 AM »
being on the small town - city council here doesn't pay much.  They usually don't have many candidates and have to beg someone to take the job.  It could pay double or triple and I'm not interested.  It's a service that someone needs to step up and do for the community.  For the right reasons, not for the money.
I work with local Council a LOT.  Here they make a little under $10k/yr.  It ends up being <minimum wage if you look at all the meetings they attend and dealing with constituent calls and whatnot.  

It is a service but if YOU aren't interested and they have to beg someone to take the job then I would submit that there is a problem.  Part of that problem is that they aren't being adequately compensated to make it worthwhile.  Anybody in it for the money would be better off getting a PT gig at a gas station.  

FearlessF

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #305 on: March 12, 2025, 09:02:54 AM »
this town of 350 people would have some serious fighting for a spot at $10K a year
I'm guessing its more like $1K

same with the board of directors at the small cooperative internet provider
they get paid a few bucks a month, mileage, and get some light refreshments, along with free internet service
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

SFBadger96

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #306 on: March 12, 2025, 07:09:49 PM »
This is an interesting dillemna. Elected positions of power do have some prestige to them, which is worth something to encourage people to apply for the job (i.e., run for election). From sitting on the front row of this, I think my spouse was fairly compensated for her work as a city councilmember for a small-ish city (~30K residents). Her takehome pay was paltry, but she did get decent medical benefits, which was worth far more than what she was paid. And how much work each councilmember put in varied a great deal. On her way out she worked to get the number increased (for those who followed her, not for her), which I think did result in people who might otherwise have felt they couldn't afford to to do it stepping up and running for (and in at least one case winning) the job. My wife really liked the work and became interested in moving up in elected life, which resulted in her putting a lot of work into what she was doing. There are other people who barely bother to read their packet before showing up at a meeting.

Moving up the ladder in elected life meant moving into a position that was a full-time, paid like a real job, position. Which seems fair. And the pay is low, but not embarassingly so. I think that's true of congress, too (and judges). The pay is low for the work performed, but not embarassingly so. That means that most people who try to do it are willing to take the pay cut. That also means that it is people who can afford the pay cut (i.e., have the money coming from somewhere else) who fill most of those positions. I think that is detrimental because it does result in a skewed pool of applicants and job holders.

How to fix it? I think the wages should be increased. How much is the question, and I'm not sure what the right answer is.

FearlessF

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Re: Academic discussion (we'll try) of politics shift away from center
« Reply #307 on: March 12, 2025, 09:55:58 PM »
therefore, a living wage
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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