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Topic: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game

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TresselownsUM

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #98 on: November 25, 2017, 10:34:40 PM »
So when JT gets hurt it comes out later that "he's been dealing with a meniscus issue"

1) if that's true (which I don't know if it is), isn't this borderline criminal of Urban to continue to pound a guy with a bad knee?

2) second, if that's true, why the eff do you not utilize your effing running backs! Yet another big game where Urban pounds his qb vs using his best players! First half, Mike Weber 1 carry. Dobbins 6 I think.

JT 15 carries before he's hurt. Wtf is urban doing? 

Mdot21

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #99 on: November 25, 2017, 10:38:07 PM »
So when JT gets hurt it comes out later that "he's been dealing with a meniscus issue"

1) if that's true (which I don't know if it is), isn't this borderline criminal of Urban to continue to pound a guy with a bad knee?

2) second, if that's true, why the eff do you not utilize your effing running backs! Yet another big game where Urban pounds his qb vs using his best players! First half, Mike Weber 1 carry. Dobbins 6 I think.

JT 15 carries before he's hurt. Wtf is urban doing?
he forget he had Zeke Elliot for long stretches of games. The best RB on planet earth. And Urban would just forget about him.

Weber and Dobbins are great backs. It was baffling to me he wasn't feeding them. Baffling but at the same time I loved it.

Maybe Urb just trusts JT more than he trusts a frosh RB and 2nd year RB?

TyphonInc

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #100 on: November 25, 2017, 10:55:05 PM »
I don't think Meyer/Trainer/Barrett knew how bad the knee injury was before the kick off. I heard someone (maybe Barrett) say his knee pops all the time, they just have to set it back. I think everyone was operating under that "simple" premise and not that there was a tear.

Then Barrett fights through it until it pops again, and they take a look and say uh-oh somethings night right here. And now Meyer is pissed.

But that's just me reading into into it.

Can you play a week later on a meniscus tear?

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #101 on: November 25, 2017, 11:06:56 PM »
OSU also swept Michigan on the Ice this weekend, in Ann Arbor. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

TresselownsUM

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #102 on: November 26, 2017, 08:52:07 AM »
I thought Michigan played with a lot of heart, for the most part, I thought they were the better team on both lines of scrimmage. although I think the baffling play calling in the first half contributed to that as well. 

Talking with my buddies, I honestly wonder if the outcome would have been different if UM just ran 50 straight plays, completely abandon the pass game. they were having success, which doesn't bode well for OSU next weekend as I think Wiscy has a much better offensive line. 

really surprised at both teams success on 3rd down, both teams had a lot of trouble getting off the field.

also really surprised at the lack of imagination with the playcalling on both sides. neither team really showed much, if any new wrinkles. tressel was great at this, always had a couple new plays up his sleeve for THE GAME. just a lot lot of the same for OSU, QB draw after QB draw, sideline passes that loosen nothing up. For UM, a lot of runs up the middle, and 9 step drops that were ineffective. 

and can someone get urban some alka selzer ,dude has heartburn all game long, or lay off the papa johns!

eltigrerex

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Re: #9 Ohio State (7-1, 9-2) at Michigan (5-3, 8-3) Game Week
« Reply #103 on: November 27, 2017, 11:19:11 AM »
So if I have this right now, I guess 2007 was Lincoln? 2006 was Austin and the first one in 2005 was Madison. 2008 Nashville, 2009 Columbia, 2010 back in Madison. 2011 Fayetteville, 2012 Atlanta and 2013 Knoxville. Then crickets.

There needs to be a new startup on these things.

@eltigrerex  @GopherRock

Wake up and chime in here. It's been too long.
There was another one in 2004 in ATL at the ESPN Zone, although it was a bit impromptu; it featured me, LilDawg, TrojanMark, aufiredog, Volhalla, Volkyrie, & Otto was supposed to be there, but I think he missed it. Otherwise, I believe that's correct. 
And I'd love to do one again but with my current situation at home, not sure I could travel far... 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #104 on: November 27, 2017, 07:23:01 PM »
I thought Michigan played with a lot of heart, for the most part, I thought they were the better team on both lines of scrimmage. although I think the baffling play calling in the first half contributed to that as well.

Talking with my buddies, I honestly wonder if the outcome would have been different if UM just ran 50 straight plays, completely abandon the pass game. they were having success, which doesn't bode well for OSU next weekend as I think Wiscy has a much better offensive line.

really surprised at both teams success on 3rd down, both teams had a lot of trouble getting off the field.

also really surprised at the lack of imagination with the playcalling on both sides. neither team really showed much, if any new wrinkles. tressel was great at this, always had a couple new plays up his sleeve for THE GAME. just a lot lot of the same for OSU, QB draw after QB draw, sideline passes that loosen nothing up. For UM, a lot of runs up the middle, and 9 step drops that were ineffective.

and can someone get urban some alka selzer ,dude has heartburn all game long, or lay off the papa johns!
Wow.  So weird how differently we saw that game.  
MIchigan's yards per carry was like 2.7 YPC.  They got put in 3rd and long almost every possession, which is why they couldn't keep running. It was not working at all.
Also, while  one worst of the season at about 4.5 per carry, OSU running game was quite effective, especially after they figured out that UM Was breaking there defensive tendencies in a big way, playing Tampa 2 instead of man to man. In fact, many plays that UM blew up in the first Q worked extremely well when OSU ran them later with a few tweaks.   They were very innovative, especially some of the motions, like the one with Paris Cambpell they hadn't done all year ( where does a full half moon behind the QB), which caused UM to shift from their " over" set, to the boundary side- thus freeing up one one blocking on the wide side.  BUckeyes got many great runs by both Dobbins and Barrett from that.
The thing nobody talks about is that OSU took over in Q2, and Michigan could not stop them.  After two straight easy scoring possessions they were well on their way to a third until they self inflicted with a high snap over Barrett's head.  
Also, the one drive UM did stop while Haskins was in, on 3rd and 1, was a horribly obvious misread on the zone read.  MIchigan completely sold out on Weber- both defensive ends crashing straight down on the snap. Had Haskins made the easy, proper read, he could have literally walked around the end for 5-7 yards.
Here is some great film :   

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2017/11/88565/film-study-how-ohio-state-made-came-back-to-handle-a-very-good-michigan-defense
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 07:25:58 PM by Honestbuckeye »
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Mdot21

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #105 on: November 27, 2017, 10:21:13 PM »
Wow.  So weird how differently we saw that game.  
MIchigan's yards per carry was like 2.7 YPC.  They got put in 3rd and long almost every possession, which is why they couldn't keep running. It was not working at all.
Also, while  one worst of the season at about 4.5 per carry, OSU running game was quite effective, especially after they figured out that UM Was breaking there defensive tendencies in a big way, playing Tampa 2 instead of man to man. In fact, many plays that UM blew up in the first Q worked extremely well when OSU ran them later with a few tweaks.   They were very innovative, especially some of the motions, like the one with Paris Cambpell they hadn't done all year ( where does a full half moon behind the QB), which caused UM to shift from their " over" set, to the boundary side- thus freeing up one one blocking on the wide side.  BUckeyes got many great runs by both Dobbins and Barrett from that.
The thing nobody talks about is that OSU took over in Q2, and Michigan could not stop them.  After two straight easy scoring possessions they were well on their way to a third until they self inflicted with a high snap over Barrett's head.  
Also, the one drive UM did stop while Haskins was in, on 3rd and 1, was a horribly obvious misread on the zone read.  MIchigan completely sold out on Weber- both defensive ends crashing straight down on the snap. Had Haskins made the easy, proper read, he could have literally walked around the end for 5-7 yards.
Here is some great film :  

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-football/film-study/2017/11/88565/film-study-how-ohio-state-made-came-back-to-handle-a-very-good-michigan-defense
Michigan was running the ball pretty effectively with Evans and Higdon. Higdon and Evans both only had around 10 carries each- combined they ran for probably close to 120 yards.

Rush YPC stats were skewed by a lot of 3rd and short yardage runs with Hill/Mason- which they both converted by the way- and of course O'Korn running himself into a couple extra sacks. Don't think I've ever seen an offense call a QB roll out and then have the QB run himself in the opposite direction of the roll out and into a sack. Entire purpose for the QB bootleg is to roll right away from the pressure- if it's not there either run up the field or throw it away. Moron actually ran left and into the pursuit. Never seen that in my life. O'Korn had to have close to -40 yards rushing. Always thought those should go against the pass stats and not the rush stats.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 10:24:34 PM by Mdot21 »

ELA

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #106 on: November 28, 2017, 08:01:22 AM »
Michigan was running the ball pretty effectively with Evans and Higdon. Higdon and Evans both only had around 10 carries each- combined they ran for probably close to 120 yards.

Rush YPC stats were skewed by a lot of 3rd and short yardage runs with Hill/Mason- which they both converted by the way- and of course O'Korn running himself into a couple extra sacks. Don't think I've ever seen an offense call a QB roll out and then have the QB run himself in the opposite direction of the roll out and into a sack. Entire purpose for the QB bootleg is to roll right away from the pressure- if it's not there either run up the field or throw it away. Moron actually ran left and into the pursuit. Never seen that in my life. O'Korn had to have close to -40 yards rushing. Always thought those should go against the pass stats and not the rush stats.
This.  O'Korn had 8 carries for -35 yards (-4.4 ypc); the fullbacks had 6 carries for 13 yards (2.2 ypc); the tailbacks had 22 carries for 122 yards (5.5 ypc), but two long carries (22 and 24 yards) accounted for over 1/3 of their total yards, with only 3.8 ypc on their other 20 carries.

So to say OSU shut them down is misleading, but the total Evans/Higdon ypc is also a touch misleading too.  But wither way, they were running effectively enough, in what was a one score game until the final possession, that I agree they should have had more carries.  It's not like OSU was selling out against the run. 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 08:03:27 AM by ELA »

Honestbuckeye

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #107 on: November 28, 2017, 08:09:27 AM »
This.  O'Korn had 8 carries for -35 yards (-4.4 ypc); the fullbacks had 6 carries for 13 yards (2.2 ypc); the tailbacks had 22 carries for 122 yards (5.5 ypc), but two long carries (22 and 24 yards) accounted for over 1/3 of their total yards, with only 3.8 ypc on their other 20 carries.

So to say OSU shut them down is misleading, but the total Evans/Higdon ypc is also a touch misleading too.  But wither way, they were running effectively enough, in what was a one score game until the final possession, that I agree they should have had more carries.  It's not like OSU was selling out against the run.
Stats go both ways.  BArrett ended up with 67 yards, net of all those sacks which were at least 25 yards.  
Stats are also calculated the same way each week.  Michigan ended up with 100 net yards, OSU 226.  One team did a much better job of stuffing the run.  It is what it is.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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ELA

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #108 on: November 28, 2017, 08:32:25 AM »
My only point was UM needed to feed their tailbacks more, they were effective.

bayareabadger

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #109 on: November 28, 2017, 09:03:59 AM »
Here's a solid statistical look at it. 

Michigan's run gam was pretty efficient, deeply unexplosive. Michigan, got ahead of the chains on 45 percent of their carries. The average nationally is 41, and for OSU is far lower. But after that, they didn't get much. OSU was a hair less efficient, a god bit more explosive. 

Evans was more efficient than Higdon, but less explosive. 

Barrett was also absurdly efficient, but that's just kind of his thing.

MaximumSam

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #110 on: November 28, 2017, 09:18:41 AM »
I enjoyed the back and forth between two very good coordinators in Kevin Wilson and Don Brown.  I was a little put off by OSU's defense again - not particularly great against the run, and too many uncovered guys in the passing game.  I'm not sure why they can't get that fixed.  I think they are trying to get too complicated on defense and it is leaving guys confused.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: #9 Ohio State (8-1, 10-2) at Michigan (5-4, 8-4) Post Game
« Reply #111 on: November 28, 2017, 10:34:40 AM »
Here's a solid statistical look at it.

Michigan's run gam was pretty efficient, deeply unexplosive. Michigan, got ahead of the chains on 45 percent of their carries. The average nationally is 41, and for OSU is far lower. But after that, they didn't get much. OSU was a hair less efficient, a god bit more explosive.

Evans was more efficient than Higdon, but less explosive.

Barrett was also absurdly efficient, but that's just kind of his thing.
good way to look at it.  But the interesting thing is that from a defensive standpoint, Ohio State is set up to eliminate explosive plays, not shut the run down completely. Its based on balance, where UMs is based on attacking.  Two completely different philosophies.  They both played out in that game.
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

 

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