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Topic: 5+1+2

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TresselownsUM

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2018, 08:24:31 AM »
I’m torn, on one hand my teams finished 5th in back to back years and there’s no doubt the BIG was a better conference than the ACC, PAC and I think better than BIG 12 and on par with SEC. argue all u want on that

But in the other hand I’m watching games from these other conferences trying to compare who might get in, and I think that debate is fun.

But hypothetically if OU would have lost and UGA got in I would be completely done with this. 

When your best resume point is “we almost beat Alabama”, I’m over it. I think bama is really good, but their best reg season win is at a 3 loss LSU, and next best is be a 4 loss miss st? Other than that there’s a lot of teams that world avg 20 point victories against what bama played.

And I saw UGA get run off the field against LSU, so if you would have kept out OSU in that scenario, scrap this farce. I’m fine with OU getting in, their defense sucks , but they were at least way more consistent than the bucks. Although I think both OU or OSU would put points on bama, and that’s one reason why I tend to lean getting the conference champs in, perception is not always reality 
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Cincydawg

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2018, 08:27:40 AM »
How many different playoff schemes have folks seen proposed by now?

Ain't happenin'.
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MrNubbz

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2018, 08:28:57 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on December 03, 2018, 08:16:37 AM
I think that 5+1+2 will be the next playoff.  
No sorry IMO more than 6 is a disaster on a couple of fronts.Fan bases picking up and traipsing all over creation isn't going to happen.1-2 games perhaps after that the ranks will thin - the travel and expense too much.Then when they start bringing the games on campus the visiting teams will cry foul.There will be no end to it.NFL bound talent will just be sitting it out as they should.All that just to satisfy the morbid craving for an amatuer No1. and to make the networks more coin.They'd be killing the goose that laid the golden egg
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2018, 08:32:39 AM »
The problem here is that the entire process is subjective to a group of 13 individuals opinions. There are no clear cut guidelines of what it takes to get into the playoffs. Sure, win all of your games as a P5 and you are probably in, but lose one and you are depending upon a group of people determining your fate.

While I would be just as happy to go back to the old bowl system and just enjoy the season, ESPN and the rest of the sports media have made MNC the only thing that matters in life if you are a college football program with being selected to play in their tournament the goal of your season. Gone are the days of having goals of beat your rival, win your conference and then your bowl game. Now it is win all of your games and get to the playoffs. Anything other than that is failure.

So if we are going to play in that model, we need to set up some clear cut, non subjective criteria that everyone knows and is available to all of the teams involved. (I am excluding the G5 as until they play better schedules, they are excluding themselves).

The obvious answer is win your conference. If you can't win your conference, you don't belong in the playoffs. I have not seen anyone complain that Michigan didn't get to play in the B1G Championship game due to their loss to tOSU and being that technically, they were tied for the lead in the B1G East. No one complained because everyone knew the criteria to get to the game going in. There were clearly defined rules that determined who would represent the East and did not take a vote of 13 people in a room to decide it.

If we want a system that rewards the regular season and takes the subjectiveness out of the process, go to a 5 game tournament and be done with it. Number 1, 2 and 3 get a bye and 4 & 5 play a play in game. If you really want to make it interesting, make the play in game and the next round home games for the higher ranked teams with the championship game played at a predetermined site.

You are still going to need a way to determine the pecking order, so just go by the AP poll with the coaches poll as a tiebreaker. Sure, the tournament seeding is subjective, but at least everyone gets a shot. As for ND, they would be forced to join a conference or be left out. I have no problem either way.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 08:39:16 AM by NorthernOhioBuckeye »
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TyphonInc

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2018, 09:20:29 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on December 03, 2018, 07:43:43 AM
All of this 'conference champs only' business is just too late to the party.  Back when everyone had 10 schools and played everyone else, it makes sense.  But you can have a big-boy team go 11-1 and not make their CCG.  You're tossing them out, on the assumption 2 of the top 4 or 6 teams in the country can't come from the same conference.  That's bogus.  Nowadays, when nobody plays everyone else, when it's luck of the draw of who you play across divisions, a non-conference champ has a legitimate gripe.
we've talked past each other so much on this point it's disgusting. The only people who continually harp that the SEC deserves more is the people that pay them a billion dollars.
There are not enough games played to make a concrete assertion that the 2nd place team in one conference is better than the champion of another. In the BCS it was an absolute farce that 'bama got a shot when Oklahoma State had a very comparable resume but doesn't get to participate because "opinion".
Ohio State got left out this year even though they had a very comparable resume compared to the #4 team so "opinion" kept them out; it's not right.
Vegas came out and said Georgia would be 2.5 point favorite over OSU, that doesn't make them a definitive better team, in my mind it actually confirms they are similarly good teams, but if OU got upset last week and Georgia made the playoff over OSU, I would have been disgusted. We know Alabama is better than Georgia, but we don't know that they are defiantly better than OSU.
I'm mildly disappointed, no one has commented on my proposed 5+1 model, where if there is a conference champ that hasn't performed to elite status (too many warts) they can be removed. But unless with get more cross games against top teams the best in each region deserves a shot before the 2nd best in a same region.
It's your opinion, that doesn't make it factual or right.
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NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2018, 09:29:51 AM »
Quote from: TyphonInc on December 03, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
we've talked past each other so much on this point it's disgusting. The only people who continually harp that the SEC deserves more is the people that pay them a billion dollars.
There are not enough games played to make a concrete assertion that the 2nd place team in one conference is better than the champion of another. In the BCS it was an absolute farce that 'bama got a shot when Oklahoma State had a very comparable resume but doesn't get to participate because "opinion".
Ohio State got left out this year even though they had a very comparable resume compared to the #4 team so "opinion" kept them out; it's not right.
Vegas came out and said Georgia would be 2.5 point favorite over OSU, that doesn't make them a definitive better team, in my mind it actually confirms they are similarly good teams, but if OU got upset last week and Georgia made the playoff over OSU, I would have been disgusted. We know Alabama is better than Georgia, but we don't know that they are defiantly better than OSU.
I'm mildly disappointed, no one has commented on my proposed 5+1 model, where if there is a conference champ that hasn't performed to elite status (too many warts) they can be removed. But unless with get more cross games against top teams the best in each region deserves a shot before the 2nd best in a same region.
It's your opinion, that doesn't make it factual or right.
I looked at your model and could get behind it. However, my goal would be to completely remove the subjective nature of selecting any team to be in the conference. Simply win your conference and you're in. Everyone would know the criteria before the first kickoff of the season. You control your own destiny and are not at the mercy of a group of people that are not with you day in and day out at practice. 
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FearlessF

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2018, 10:25:43 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on December 03, 2018, 07:48:25 AM
The conference champs thing only pertains if the teams are otherwise "close".  If they aren't, it doesn't matter.
it doesn't matter
a tall
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FearlessF

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2018, 10:32:06 AM »
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Sam McKewon says the Big Ten’s formula for getting its champion into the College Football Playoff is [/color]backfiring

https://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/mckewon-big-ten-s-formula-for-success-with-college-football/article_89d23993-9b29-5eaf-9add-f01af4e01767.html

The Big Ten bet wrong on nine conference games. The two leagues that play eight conference games — the ACC and SEC — are the only two leagues to qualify for each CFP. Those leagues happily and prominently play FCS opponents, as well.

The committee doesn’t care, nor see how an extra conference game — Alabama playing at Florida, for example, or Clemson traveling to Miami — might be significantly harder, for several reasons, than a random game against, say, Colorado State or Tulsa.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2018, 12:10:45 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on December 03, 2018, 10:32:06 AM
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Sam McKewon says the Big Ten’s formula for getting its champion into the College Football Playoff is [/color]backfiring

https://www.omaha.com/huskers/football/mckewon-big-ten-s-formula-for-success-with-college-football/article_89d23993-9b29-5eaf-9add-f01af4e01767.html

The Big Ten bet wrong on nine conference games. The two leagues that play eight conference games — the ACC and SEC — are the only two leagues to qualify for each CFP. Those leagues happily and prominently play FCS opponents, as well.

The committee doesn’t care, nor see how an extra conference game — Alabama playing at Florida, for example, or Clemson traveling to Miami — might be significantly harder, for several reasons, than a random game against, say, Colorado State or Tulsa.
Yeah, this makes sense. The question is what direction you go from here:
  • Water down the B1G schedule, go back to 8 conference games, relax the FCS rules further to allow FCS games every year.
  • Actually fix the damn playoff so that conference championships matter.

The truth is that as fans, we WANT to see good games against good opponents. Nobody wants to see the Buckeyes or the Wolverines destroy some FCS patsy... Or in the Wolverines' case, lose to an FCS team :57:

The current playoff rewards scheduling OOC wins, not scheduling OOC good games. The committee says it cares about SOS, but it's subjective so they care about SOS when it supports the team they want to place into the CFP and don't seem to care about SOS when it doesn't support it. 

The revealed preference of the committee is that the only thing that TRULY matters is having as few losses on your record as possible, not the quality of the wins. Hence why Notre Dame is double-digit dogs but there's no way they'd be excluded from the playoff. [I'm leaving out Alabama here, because although OU is a double-digit dog, I think the Cleveland Browns would be double-digit dogs to Bama this year.]

I want a system that doesn't punish a team for strong OOC scheduling. The current system rewards quality OOC wins, but punishes quality OOC losses without punishing non-quality OOC wins. So there's no incentive to schedule that strong OOC.
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ELA

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2018, 12:12:02 PM »
When they put a 12-1 Washington team in they pretty much destroyed any argument they had about caring about SOS.
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MrNubbz

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2018, 12:39:58 PM »
Quote from: bwarbiany on December 03, 2018, 12:10:45 PM


The truth is that as fans, we WANT to see good games against good opponents. Nobody wants to see the Buckeyes or the Wolverines destroy some FCS patsy... Or in the Wolverines' case, lose to an FCS team :57:
Hey tOSU lost to Purdue - isn't that the same?   ;D
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rolltidefan

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2018, 12:47:38 PM »
i don't like conf champs getting auto bids, unless it comes with a caveat that they have to be ranked in top 10-12 or something. i don't want a 4-5 loss team getting lucky being in the right side of the divisions and having the game of their lives getting them in the playoffs. if you're 1 w/l swap away from being .500, you don't deserve a shot, i don't care what conf you won.

if you're a p5 champ with 0-2 losses, you'll almost always be in top 10. and those are the limits i'd put on a team deserving a title shot.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2018, 01:00:29 PM »
Quote from: TyphonInc on December 03, 2018, 09:20:29 AM
we've talked past each other so much on this point it's disgusting. The only people who continually harp that the SEC deserves more is the people that pay them a billion dollars.
There are not enough games played to make a concrete assertion that the 2nd place team in one conference is better than the champion of another. In the BCS it was an absolute farce that 'bama got a shot when Oklahoma State had a very comparable resume but doesn't get to participate because "opinion".
Ohio State got left out this year even though they had a very comparable resume compared to the #4 team so "opinion" kept them out; it's not right.
Vegas came out and said Georgia would be 2.5 point favorite over OSU, that doesn't make them a definitive better team, in my mind it actually confirms they are similarly good teams, but if OU got upset last week and Georgia made the playoff over OSU, I would have been disgusted. We know Alabama is better than Georgia, but we don't know that they are defiantly better than OSU.
I'm mildly disappointed, no one has commented on my proposed 5+1 model, where if there is a conference champ that hasn't performed to elite status (too many warts) they can be removed. But unless with get more cross games against top teams the best in each region deserves a shot before the 2nd best in a same region.
It's your opinion, that doesn't make it factual or right.
1 - I haven't harped that the SEC deserves more.  I'm merely saying that 2 of the top 4 or 6 teams may very well come from the same conference (any conference).
2 - If UGA had gotten in over OSU, I would've thought it was messed up, like you.
3 - All of this is merely opinion...why would anyone (myself included) think otherwise?
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2018, 01:11:50 PM »
The folks that were clamoring for Georgia are the same ones that howl that the playoffs devalue the regular season.
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