2024-2025 B1G Basketball Thread

[bayareabadger]

Some bad blood with GB and UWM for sure.

No need to play them. It's a no-win for the flagship.

Is there a root to the issue with GB? 

I don't totally mind it. It makes some goodwill. If UW is bad enough to lose to most GB squads, that's on them. If GB is good enough to upset UW, good for them, I suppose. I think the last win GB had against UW got their coach the Toledo job.

[MarqHusker]

Went to a conference there.  It remains very 1930 fancy.  I can't imagine paying those prices on my own dime.  The golf courses are legit, but the hotel itself is EXTREMELY outdated

This is a very concise and accurate review. 

[FearlessF]

Now I want to book a tee time there

[847badgerfan]

Cincy - NO, for the same reason that

@847badgerfan doesn't like playing "Market".  [/list]

I love UW playing, and beating, Market.

I wouldn't say no to Cincy were I an OSU fan. Same with Xavier. Don't be a wuss. Play 'em.

[847badgerfan]

Is there a root to the issue with GB?

I don't totally mind it. It makes some goodwill. If UW is bad enough to lose to most GB squads, that's on them. If GB is good enough to upset UW, good for them, I suppose. I think the last win GB had against UW got their coach the Toledo job.

Gard does not like the GB head coach at all.

[medinabuckeye1]

According to one of the tOSU sites, Ohio State Head Coach Jake Diebler's contract is five years at a base salary of $2.5M with the following bonuses:

• $25k for B1G Championship or co
• $50k for B1G Tournament Championship
• $25k for NCAA Appearance as an at-large (I assume this means that if they win the B1G Tournament, he doesn't get an extra $25k because they'd be an auto-bid.)    
• $50k for S16
• $75k for E8
• $100k for F4
• $250k for NC but this one is explicitly NOT cumulative with the $100k F4 bonus 
• $50k for B1G or national COTY (total for either or both)

So as I read it, the maximum bonus is:

• $75k for B1G regular season and Tournament Championships plus
• $50k for S16, $125k total
• $75k for E8, $200k total
• $250k for NC, $450k total
• $50k for COTY, $500k total

Honestly, it feels like tOSU is being unnecessarily cheap here with the bonuses.  Realistically, if Diebler wins a NC they are going to give him raise MUCH bigger than $500k so why not make it official within the contract?  IIRC, they were paying Holtmann about $4.5M and that was on the higher end in the B1G but not the highest.  

I think it is smart to load up the bonuses anyway for two reasons:

• Success brings money to the program so the bonuses pay for themselves.  
• In the event that it goes sideways and you end up having to fire a guy the bonuses aren't guaranteed so you don't have to pay them as a buyout.  

If Ohio State wins B1G regular season and Tournament Championships, Diebler wins COTY, and the Buckeyes win the NC, the University will have LOTS of cash from all the tickets they'll have sold to a packed arena for a contender and all the merch they'll sell.  In that case, the half a Million in bonuses will be pocket change.  Why not double or triple all the bonuses?  If they were tripled and he got all of them it will still only be $1.5M and bring his total to $4M which is still less than they were paying Holtmann.  

To clarify, this post isn't meant to be too specific to Diebler and I'm not really advocating for higher salaries for coaches.  My point is more about the structures of contracts because it makes a LOT of sense to me to lean more toward bonuses.  If the team sucks and/or you have to fire a coach you don't have to pay the bonuses and if the team has a lot of success you don't mind paying them because you've got plenty of money laying around anyway.  If I were AD, I'd be all in for increasing the bonuses by an order of magnitude in exchange for a slight reduction in base.  

[FearlessF]

Nebraska men’s basketball coach Fred Hoiberg receives a contract extension through the 2028-29 season.

[betarhoalphadelta]

To clarify, this post isn't meant to be too specific to Diebler and I'm not really advocating for higher salaries for coaches.  My point is more about the structures of contracts because it makes a LOT of sense to me to lean more toward bonuses.  If the team sucks and/or you have to fire a coach you don't have to pay the bonuses and if the team has a lot of success you don't mind paying them because you've got plenty of money laying around anyway.  If I were AD, I'd be all in for increasing the bonuses by an order of magnitude in exchange for a slight reduction in base. 

Pretty sure every AD in the country would like to keep coaching compensation performance-driven by offering lower base salary and higher bonuses. But coaches typically have the negotiating upper hand. The coaches and agents have largely (by their behavior) made those sorts of contracts impossible--they won't accept those contracts. They want the guaranteed money, and they'll walk away if they don't get it. In fact, I think the unspoken assumption is that if they're not offered the larger salary and guarantee, it's almost an affront by the school calling the coach not worth it.

The Diebler situation is uncommon, especially for a big school like OSU, because he's being given a chance despite being unproven. He doesn't have any real negotiation power here--he wants the job and nobody else is going to offer him $2.5M. If he's gotta get a HC job at some school in an auto-bid league they're not going to be paying him $2.5M.

Rest assured that if he has 2-3 years of success leading to a contract extension, it's going to be more coach-friendly with guaranteed salary. Because if he is successful at OSU but underpaid, he'd be someone that any power conference school in the country would be looking at poaching him in a coaching search.

[847badgerfan]

Exactly.

[medinabuckeye1]

Pretty sure every AD in the country would like to keep coaching compensation performance-driven by offering lower base salary and higher bonuses. But coaches typically have the negotiating upper hand. The coaches and agents have largely (by their behavior) made those sorts of contracts impossible--they won't accept those contracts. They want the guaranteed money, and they'll walk away if they don't get it. In fact, I think the unspoken assumption is that if they're not offered the larger salary and guarantee, it's almost an affront by the school calling the coach not worth it.

The Diebler situation is uncommon, especially for a big school like OSU, because he's being given a chance despite being unproven. He doesn't have any real negotiation power here--he wants the job and nobody else is going to offer him $2.5M. If he's gotta get a HC job at some school in an auto-bid league they're not going to be paying him $2.5M.

Rest assured that if he has 2-3 years of success leading to a contract extension, it's going to be more coach-friendly with guaranteed salary. Because if he is successful at OSU but underpaid, he'd be someone that any power conference school in the country would be looking at poaching him in a coaching search.

I realize the negotiating power issue and you can see it in Diebler's salary which is quite low by B1G standards.  This is from an IU fan site published in August, B1G BB HC salaries:

• $6.2M, Tom Izzo - MSU
• $4.6M, Brad Underwood - Illinois
• $4.2M, Mike Woodson - Indiana
• $3.9M, Kevin Willard - Maryland
• $3.55M, Matt Painter - Purdue
• $3.55M, Greg Gard - Wisconsin
• $3.5M, Chris Holtmann - Ohio State
• $3.5M, Fred Hoiberg - Nebraska
• $3.4M, Mike Rhoades - PSU
• $3.31M, Juwan Howard - Michigan
• $3.25M, Steve Pikiell - Rutgers
• $3.4M, Fran McCaffery - Iowa
• $2.893M, Chris Collins - Northwestern
• $1.95M, Ben Johnson - Minnesota

Assuming this site is right (and I think even a Purdue alum will trust an IU site for salary info), Diebler will be the second lowest paid B1G coach ahead of only Ben Johnson.  

I guess the whole thing just seems like a bit of a farce to me.  Diebler's maximum bonus is $500k but realistically, if he wins an NC, he'll get a LOT more than that.  

[betarhoalphadelta]

Assuming this site is right (and I think even a Purdue alum will trust an IU site for salary info), Diebler will be the second lowest paid B1G coach ahead of only Ben Johnson. 

I guess the whole thing just seems like a bit of a farce to me.  Diebler's maximum bonus is $500k but realistically, if he wins an NC, he'll get a LOT more than that. 

Yes, he'll be the second-lowest paid. So what? Everyone on both sides knows that if he performs, he'll rocket up that list quickly. It's not like OSU is known for being stingy. 

Honestly if I were his agent, I might have argued to make those performance bonuses short of the NC a little bigger, because they only get paid out IF he's successful. And realistically they're not going to pay out that NC bonus anyway, so might as well make it $1M. It'd be worth it but it's not going to happen. 

But if he's successful, it'll be a moot point in 2-3 years anyway. If he wins an NC, it'll be reflected in his extension, not his bonus. 

[medinabuckeye1]

Yes, he'll be the second-lowest paid. So what? Everyone on both sides knows that if he performs, he'll rocket up that list quickly. It's not like OSU is known for being stingy.

Honestly if I were his agent, I might have argued to make those performance bonuses short of the NC a little bigger, because they only get paid out IF he's successful. And realistically they're not going to pay out that NC bonus anyway, so might as well make it $1M. It'd be worth it but it's not going to happen.

But if he's successful, it'll be a moot point in 2-3 years anyway. If he wins an NC, it'll be reflected in his extension, not his bonus.

This is all true. It just seems kinda funny because the only figure in the contract that is even conditionally relevant is the $2.5M base for five years.

If Diebler flames out and gets fired tOSU will be on the hook for $12.5M. Presumably there is an offset for future employment so that $12.5M is the cap on tOSU's exposure if this doesn't go well.

If he is even reasonably successful he'll be given a raise commensurate with that level of performance. The more successful, the bigger the raise which makes the bonuses superfluous. The $250K for winning the NC is pocket change compared to the raise he'd get if he won tOSU's first BB NC in 65 years. At that point he'd get Izzo money and $250K would be a rounding error.

[bayareabadger]

Gard does not like the GB head coach at all.

I forgot there was a recruit thing last year too.

[847badgerfan]

I forgot there was a recruit thing last year too.

Yep. Kid was supposed to transfer to UW and ended up at GB. Can't remember his name but I think he was a guard?