2023 Ohio State Season Thread

[MrNubbz]

3 Things I have not understood about OSU this year:

3) TreVeyon getting hurt and Hayden not being a bigger part of the offense instead of Miyan and Trayanum.  Those two aren't bad by any means, but Dallan looks like his ceiling is high. My only question is does he not have great hands or not block as well?

Jeebis you're killing me don't sound like the critics on the death star board.1st off all three of those guys couldn't stay healthy together on the field for the past 2 yrs.So take one of the plugs and keep them into block.From the footage I've seen he's more accomplished at what he sets out to do than the HC or QB even if they are nice guys.When the RBs actually get set in the backfield Dallan is so much quicker it's really not close.If he portals they'll break the servers at 11W or Bucknuts in schadenfreude kind a way I almost wish he does

[SuperMario]

Jeebis you're killing me don't sound like the critics on the death star board.1st off all three of those guys couldn't stay healthy together on the field for the past 2 yrs.So take one of the plugs and keep them into block.

lol. Please elaborate because that's going straight over my head and I'm not sure what you're saying here. 

[MrNubbz]

11 Warriors if you lay down any contructive criticism and you hear the same lame laments "oh you don't know more than the coach" and "he'll get his turn if he waits" well he's in his 2nd season already.All this after they guy puts up similar numbers,stays healthy and most certainly passes the eye test.And rose to the occasion and put like 5 ypc avg when behind the 1st team - it's maddening

[Honestbuckeye]

Henderson, Trayunum and Williams all gone after this season. 

Leaves only Haden and Pryor ( highly recruited, but injured with knee and Achilles up until now so unproven.)

Great running back recruits coming in next year, but they wanted to red shirt Hayden. 

My prediction is you will see plenty of him in their bowl game and he will be there featured back next year. 

[MrNubbz]

That's not the point they needed a spark and some game and DH has routinely showed that when given the chance.Doesn't matter IF we see him next year we maybe could have used him Saturday. Day burned opportunity NOW,there is no guarantee the program gets back there specially with the firebrands Ducks/Huskies entering the fray.Who knows the Trojans might wake up also.Day never changed up shyt,he's not innovative or a risk taker.Devin Brown was listed available.Hell Sherrone Moore rolled the dice called a HB option guess what ya it worked - who'd a thunk?

[MaximumSam]

Henderson, Trayunum and Williams all gone after this season. 

Why would Williams and Trayanum leave?

[MrNubbz]

They had their chance hand Dallan the rock

[medinabuckeye1]

Henderson, Trayunum and Williams all gone after this season. 

Leaves only Haden and Pryor ( highly recruited, but injured with knee and Achilles up until now so unproven.)

Great running back recruits coming in next year, but they wanted to red shirt Hayden. 

My prediction is you will see plenty of him in their bowl game and he will be there featured back next year. 

My perception (could be wrong) is that Hayden doesn't have the breakaway speed that Henderson has.  Functionally, what that means is that when Hayden gets behind the defense it is maybe a 25-40 yard run, when Henderson gets behind the defense it is a TD.  

That ability was huge in the Notre Dame and Minnesota games, for example.  
Notre Dame:  The Buckeyes led 3-0 at halftime and Notre Dame got to the tOSU 39 on their first possession of the second half before being stopped on a 4th and 1.  The very next play Henderson got past the ND defense and outran everybody to the endzone for a 10-0 lead.  That was a game-changing play.  

Minnesota:  The Buckeyes only led 13-0 at halftime but they got the ball first in the second half and on the first play of the second half Henderson got past the MN defense and outran everybody to the endzone for a 20-0 lead.  That was a game-changing play.  It went from a dogfight to a romp on one play.  

So then look at the Michigan game:  Henderson ended up with 19 for 60 (3.2 avg) with a long of just 8.  That is not great but credit to Michigan they've got a pretty good rushing defense.  I think Day specifically likes the homerun threat and I can't completely disagree.  Henderson's long TD against Notre Dame was huge.  In a close game like this last one, one long TD would likely have been the difference.  I understand that Henderson didn't hit one in The Game but those are the breaks.  He could have and if he had, the end result probably flips.  If Hayden is in instead and if Hayden is slightly better on the non-breakaway plays, what difference does it make? 

I can see both sides.  Maybe the only difference is that Ohio State gets a couple more first downs?  Maybe the FG becomes a TD and we lose 28-30 instead of 24-30?  OTOH, maybe the extra fraction of a yard per play gets us in better rhythm, keeps multiple drives alive, forces M to commit more defenders to the line, and we win going away.  Henderson hitting a homerun almost certainly would have flipped the game and I think they just kept feeding him and hoping it would happen.  

One carry makes a huge difference.  As noted above, in the Michigan game Henderson had 19 for 60 (3.2 avg).  In the Notre Dame game he had 14 for 104 (7.4 avg).  That is a huge difference.  Henderson had more than twice the YPC against ND that he had against M but note that it was ALL on one play.  Take away the 61 yard TD against Notre Dame and his other carries were 13 for 43 (3.3 avg).  Excluding the homerun Henderson's YPC were almost identical against M and ND.  

[SuperMario]

11 Warriors if you lay down any contructive criticism and you hear the same lame laments "oh you don't know more than the coach" and "he'll get his turn if he waits" well he's in his 2nd season already.All this after they guy puts up similar numbers,stays healthy and most certainly passes the eye test.And rose to the occasion and put like 5 ypc avg when behind the 1st team - it's maddening

I definitely get that and while I hate the coaching staff knows more, sometimes they get it wrong and the eye test says different. Early on, that was my biggest gripe with Harbaugh. I thought he and the staff got the QB situation wrong very often and consistently were starting the wrong guy. Thankfully, JJ has made that a non-issue, but it's certainly frustrating as a fan when it comes up and seems blatant. 

[FearlessF]

hey! good to see the OSU season thread get some traffic

[SuperMario]

So then look at the Michigan game:  Henderson ended up with 19 for 60 (3.2 avg) with a long of just 8.  That is not great but credit to Michigan they've got a pretty good rushing defense.  I think Day specifically likes the homerun threat and I can't completely disagree.  Henderson's long TD against Notre Dame was huge.  In a close game like this last one, one long TD would likely have been the difference.  I understand that Henderson didn't hit one in The Game but those are the breaks.  He could have and if he had, the end result probably flips.  If Hayden is in instead and if Hayden is slightly better on the non-breakaway plays, what difference does it make? 

I can see both sides.  Maybe the only difference is that Ohio State gets a couple more first downs?  Maybe the FG becomes a TD and we lose 28-30 instead of 24-30?  OTOH, maybe the extra fraction of a yard per play gets us in better rhythm, keeps multiple drives alive, forces M to commit more defenders to the line, and we win going away.  Henderson hitting a homerun almost certainly would have flipped the game and I think they just kept feeding him and hoping it would happen. 

One carry makes a huge difference.  As noted above, in the Michigan game Henderson had 19 for 60 (3.2 avg).  In the Notre Dame game he had 14 for 104 (7.4 avg).  That is a huge difference.  Henderson had more than twice the YPC against ND that he had against M but note that it was ALL on one play.  Take away the 61 yard TD against Notre Dame and his other carries were 13 for 43 (3.3 avg).  Excluding the homerun Henderson's YPC were almost identical against M and ND. 

I don't want to speak for Nubbz, but I took his stance (and I share a similar) that Hayden should have gotten the additional snaps that Henderson got, not that he should have replaced Henderson. He'll correct me if he believes different for sure

Look at the Wisconsin game for example. TreVeyon had a massive game. 24 carries, 162 yards and a td, with 4 receptions for 45 yards. Massive game. Additional snaps went to Chip.. 6 carries 13 yards. 2 receptions 7 yards. So 8 plays, 20 yards.

Penn State game. Miyan 24 carries for 62 yards and a td. Chip 9 carries 22 yards.  Don't want to give Hayden 1 or 2 plays there? PSU defense is certainly top notch, but not explosive numbers there. 

Maryland game - Chip 20 carries 61 yards and a td, 1 reception -18 yards. .thats a minus lol. Miyan 6 carries 23 yards, 1 reception 4 yards. Even if you throw out the fluke 18 yards loss, it's still 27 plays accounting for 88 yards, 3.26 yards per play. Not amazing. 

Haydan had 20 plays for 108 yards on the season. Granted, it could be argued it's garbage time versus 2nd and 3rd string players, but last year versus Maryland Haydan was the go to and had 27 carries for 146 yards 3tds, 2 receptions for 10 yards.  Longest run was 18 yards, yes, but overall impact seemed far greater.

Just from my seat, someone rooting for OSU to lose, the football fan side of me thinks OSU should have shelled out more Miyan and Chip plays to Haydan

[medinabuckeye1]

Thoughts on Day:
The people calling for Day's head are nuts.  I've always said that evaluating a coach based on performance against rival is a mistake because no rival is a constant.  If Michigan sucks for 10 years then going 6-4 against them isn't good enough.  Conversely, if Michigan is great for a decade then going 4-6 against them might not be so bad.  

To put this into concrete examples: 
Woody Hayes had a losing record in the famous 10 Year War at 4-5-1.  Here is the thing, entering The Game those ten Michigan teams were:

• 10-0 four times, 2-1-1
• 9-0 once, 1-0
• 9-1 three times, 0-3
• 8-0-2 once, 1-0
• 7-2 once, 0-1

You never like losing to your rival but those were some really great Michigan teams.  


After the monster #1v#2 game in 2006 Michigan had a pretty lackluster decade and Ohio State went 8-1 against them (9-1 before vacating the 2010 season).  Entering The Game, those ten Michigan teams were:

• 10-1 once, 1-0
• 9-2 twice, 1-1
• 8-3 twice, 2-0
• 7-4 twice, 1-0 (another win subsequently vacated)
• 5-6 twice, 2-0
• 3-8 once, 1-0

6-4 wouldn't be very good against that slate.  

Another concrete example is that Michigan's last three teams have entered The Game at 10-1, 11-0, and 11-0.  The last time Ohio State played three consecutive .900+ Michigan teams was 1976-1978.  Woody Hayes went 0-3 in those games.  

People comparing Day to Cooper are also wrong.  Cooper's problem wasn't losing to great Michigan teams, his problem was losing to mediocre Michigan teams.  He infamously finished 2-10-1 against Michigan but it really comes down to three games:

• 1993:  9-0-1 #5 Ohio State lost to 6-4 unranked Michigan
• 1995:  11-0 #2 Ohio State lost to 8-3 #18 Michigan
• 1996:  10-0 #2 Ohio State lost to 7-3 #21 Michigan

You might say "Hey Medina, even if Coop had won those three he'd still have only been 5-7-1 against Michigan."  Ok, but he also lost his first four so he'd have been 5-3-1 after that plus he'd have had a four-year winning streak (1993-1996) and a five year non-losing streak (1992-1996) along with at least one (1996) and possibly as many as three (93, 95, 96) NC's.  

Ohio State is 11-1.  They will probably be roughly #6 in the final CFP rankings.  That will make 10 straight years of being ranked in the final CFP rankings.  Only Alabama and Clemson are in that club with Ohio State and Clemson is about to fall out of it so when the final CFP rankings come out this year only tOSU and Bama will have been ranked in every single final CFP ranking.  Oh, and for good measure, tOSU's lowest rank so far was #7 which probably will not change this year while Alabama's lowest rank was #13 so Ohio State will continue to maintain their unbelievable consistency.  They'll be the only team to have a single-digit final CFP ranking in each of the CFP's 10 years.  Day has been HC for half of that.  


The above doesn't even consider the ongoing NCAA investigation into the Stalions sign-stealing conspiracy.  The Wolverines will almost certainly have to vacate at least the wins where it can be proven that they conducted impermissible in-person scouting.  

[MrNubbz]

My perception (could be wrong) is that Hayden doesn't have the breakaway speed that Henderson has.  Functionally, what that means is that when Hayden gets behind the defense it is maybe a 25-40 yard run, when Henderson gets behind the defense it is a TD. 

Late in the year Dallan was the deal breaker last season,he hit the hole and gets to the the 2nd level QUIKER.I was sent the video vs Maryland where twice he split the seam going between numerous would be tacklers.It's his instincts just making the right cuts.Vs Georgia he avg 4.8 ypc Williams had 2.7,Xavier had 4.7 ,Henderson did not play.Last season had Henderson at 5.3 ypc,Hayden at 5.0,Williams 6.4 and Traynum 6.1.Many times he got in with the subs.But he definitely get things going

And Dallan didn't get in vs those teams this season so no comparisan.but the fact remains the other guys were out quite a bit also and he has stayed healthy so why the back seat.Brown should have gotten in also just to shake things up

And those stats don't factor in the conference has been weak by and large as power rating that came out at the end of season pointed out.He definitly needs to take a pay cut.Bad decisions regarding both personell and plays it's just not those numbers.He not getting a @#!$%*& pass he goes up in weight class and he is 1-6.That's stat sticks out and when you make his scratch - don't want to hear it.Urbs faced healthy PSU/MSU teams

[medinabuckeye1]

Brown should have gotten in also just to shake things up

This, the QB situation in general is my bigger concern. 

Optimistically McCord wasn't bad this year and he was only a first year starter.

Pessimistically wouldn't most average CFB QB's look pretty good throwing to Harrison and Egbuka?