2023 NFL Thread

[ELA]

Well the Lions have officially given up on Jeff Okudah.  Giving him to Atlanta for a 5th round pick?  He seemed fine when healthy.  He clearly was never living up to being the #3 pick, but he wasn't unplayable.

Appears to be a salary cap move, but who are they clearing cap space for?

[Mdot21]

Well the Lions have officially given up on Jeff Okudah.  Giving him to Atlanta for a 5th round pick?  He seemed fine when healthy.  He clearly was never living up to being the #3 pick, but he wasn't unplayable.

Appears to be a salary cap move, but who are they clearing cap space for?

Lamar Jackson? Lol. In all seriousness, I hope not. I love Lamar but they need to use their #6 and #18 picks and not trade them away...not to mention they don't need to be cap strapped by a $200+ mil guaranteed contract.

I first guessed Okudah. You flat out don't take a CB in the top 3 unless they are Charles Woodson/Champ Bailey type players/prospects. Okudah was really good for one year at Ohio State- but he was never even remotely close to that universe.

[Honestbuckeye]

Lamar Jackson? Lol. In all seriousness, I hope not. I love Lamar but they need to use their #6 and #18 picks and not trade them away...not to mention they don't need to be cap strapped by a $200+ mil guaranteed contract.

I first guessed Okudah. You flat out don't take a CB in the top 3 unless they are Charles Woodson/Champ Bailey type players/prospects. Okudah was really good for one year at Ohio State- but he was never even remotely close to that universe.

I agree about not taking a CB that high. But to be fair to Okudah, an Achilles takes time to recover from.  

[Mdot21]

I agree about not taking a CB that high. But to be fair to Okudah, an Achilles takes time to recover from. 

yeah achilles are pretty serious injuries for CBs, RBs, WRs imo.

If you get Okudah at say pick #23, that makes sense. Based on his upside, size, athleticism. But at #3, you better be getting a as close to a sure thing generational type talent if you're taking a CB. At #3 you take a QB every time over a CB unless that CB is like Bailey/Woodson type level prospect.

Lions would've been better off taking Herbert or even Tua at #3. The potential of this Lions team with Justin Herbert at QB on a rookie deal would be scary to be honest.

[Mdot21]

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[ELA]

yeah achilles are pretty serious injuries for CBs, RBs, WRs imo.

If you get Okudah at say pick #23, that makes sense. Based on his upside, size, athleticism. But at #3, you better be getting a as close to a sure thing generational type talent if you're taking a CB. At #3 you take a QB every time over a CB unless that CB is like Bailey/Woodson type level prospect.

Lions would've been better off taking Herbert or even Tua at #3. The potential of this Lions team with Justin Herbert at QB on a rookie deal would be scary to be honest.

And even Woodson was meh as an outside corner, and then evolved into an elite hybrid nickel/FS after his turf toe.

Even once he lost a chunk of his athleticism, he still became a solid CB, combined with being Troy Polamalu, without the massive coverage misses that nobody seems to notice with Polamlau

[Mdot21]

And even Woodson was meh as an outside corner, and then evolved into an elite hybrid nickel/FS after his turf toe.

Even once he lost a chunk of his athleticism, he still became a solid CB, combined with being Troy Polamalu, without the massive coverage misses that nobody seems to notice with Polamlau

yeah that just isn't true. Woodson was the best outside CB in the NFL basically from day one for the first 5 years of his NFL career in Oakland. It wasn't a turf toe that derailed his Oakland career, it was a leg injury. His last couple seasons in Oakland he fell off the map and the Raiders decided not to franchise him so he went to Green Bay to get the big pay check.

And he didn't really lose any of his athleticism in Green Bay, he was actually healthy again and Dom Capers smartly decided to use him everywhere from outside, to nickel, to free safety, to even a dime LB role- and Woodson's career took off again. If you think he lost athleticism in Green Bay- watch the tape. Dude broke his shoulder in the Super Bowl running stride for stride and breaking up a ball playing man to man outside vs Mike Wallace- who was a 4.3 guy for the Steelers.

[ELA]

yeah that just isn't true. Woodson was the best outside CB in the NFL basically from day one for the first 5 years of his NFL career in Oakland. It wasn't a turf toe that derailed his Oakland career, it was a leg injury. His last couple seasons in Oakland he fell off the map and the Raiders decided not to franchise him so he went to Green Bay to get the big pay check.

And he didn't really lose any of his athleticism in Green Bay, he was actually healthy again and Dom Capers smartly decided to use him everywhere from outside, to nickel, to free safety, to even a dime LB role- and Woodson's career took off again. If you think he lost athleticism in Green Bay- watch the tape. Dude broke his shoulder in the Super Bowl running stride for stride and breaking up a ball playing man to man outside vs Mike Wallace- who was a 4.3 guy for the Steelers.

He was never a lockdown outside corner after that 2002 season.  He was a HOF DB.  But never a pure corner after that.  I wasn't insulting him.  I said he was Troy Polamalu but with coverage ability, and wouldn't abandon scheme like Troy did.

I think he is the best NFL DB in NFL history.  But not as a pure cover corner

[Mdot21]

He was never a lockdown outside corner after that 2002 season.  He was a HOF DB.  But never a pure corner after that.  I wasn't insulting him.  I said he was Troy Polamalu but with coverage ability, and wouldn't abandon scheme like Troy did.

I think he is the best NFL DB in NFL history.  But not as a pure cover corner

fair enough. he was far more effective and lethal to disrupting an offense by moving him all around. might be the best tackling CB that's ever played in the NFL. can't remember how many times he's made huge plays disrupting the ball by making big hits and slapping the ball out of the ball carriers hands. Including the most infamous one which spawned a dynasty- the Tuck Rule. That was a sack/fumble....don't care what anyone says. Dude just made plays all over the field. Was in awe of his play making ability. Still remember that tackle he made at the goal line on McGahee or that INT he made vs Dallas at the goal line covering Witten- he basically beat the Cowboys by himself that day- just like he did in college vs Ohio State in '97.

I wouldn't say he's the best DB in NFL history- but he was BONED by that NFL 100 team thing if you ask me. If I was starting a dream NFL team defense, Deion Sanders, Charles Woodson, Ed Reed, and Ronnie Lott would be my starting 4 DBs.

[ELA]

He wasn't as good a cover corner as Deion, or as good a safety as Ed Reed, but he was a HELL of a lot better at tackling than Deion, and covering (which in fairness, he wasn't asked to do) than Reed

[OrangeAfroMan]

Reed was the best CF Baltimore had since Willie Blair.

[ELA]

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I think at a pretty decent price jump

[OrangeAfroMan]

I think he is the best NFL DB in NFL history.  But not as a pure cover corner

This is a weird statement imo.

It's like saying a guy is the best defensive second baseman ever (a la Bill Mazeroski).
Okay, that's great and all, but if he was that great a defender, he'd be playing shortstop.  

cover corner > DB
.
no?

[betarhoalphadelta]

This is a weird statement imo.

It's like saying a guy is the best defensive second baseman ever (a la Bill Mazeroski).
Okay, that's great and all, but if he was that great a defender, he'd be playing shortstop. 

cover corner > DB
.
no?

Not necessarily. 

It's like saying someone who plays Center is the best OL of all time, and countering "well if he was the best OL of all time, he'd play Left Tackle". Not really. They're different skill sets. 

Just as the best cover corner in history may not be the best DB in history because someone who plays free safety is so much better than the competition in the "DB" position that you call them the best DB. 

It's assuming that the best "OL" must by definition be LT, or the best "DB" must by definition be a cover corner, and I don't think that assumption is warranted. 

Of course, the safer thing is to only evaluate players against their actual position, because "DB" and "OL" are collections of multiple positions that each have different skill sets and needs.