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Topic: 2023 AP Preseason Poll

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2023, 12:48:19 PM »
Sure, but for us, it means more.  So there.

And you are about to be "us" so you need to get your excuses ready.  I have a length list.  There will be a test.

utee94

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2023, 01:02:37 PM »
Hey we already lost our bowl last year because "we didn't really want to be there" so I think we're coming around on the excuse-making.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2023, 01:10:05 PM »
And that's a good one, we use it ourselves fairly often when playing Texas.  Keep it handy, but we have a lot more.  Weather is also a good one, or can be.

"We get everyone's best shot."

"The refs hate us."

I'll email you the book.

Kris60

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2023, 08:38:29 PM »
James Franklin is still the coach.
Franklin feels like he’s in that weird spot Mark Richt was with Georgia before he was canned.  Ninety percent of fanbases around the country would love to have his results.  Penn St fans wonder what’s keeping them from being Ohio St (and Michigan of late).  

Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2023, 07:32:30 AM »
I think when your team is a consistent 10 game winner with occasional conference championships your fan base will want to take the next step.  And after a decade plus of being "pretty good", folks want really good and elite.  The problem of course is that your new coach may be no  better, and even worse, I think often he's going to be worse.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2023, 07:47:30 AM »
I think when your team is a consistent 10 game winner with occasional conference championships your fan base will want to take the next step.  And after a decade plus of being "pretty good", folks want really good and elite.  The problem of course is that your new coach may be no  better, and even worse, I think often he's going to be worse.
This is for the most part Drew. True believer fans usually think the next big step is right around the corner. I remember when Badgers fans felt that way when I was in college.

every so often you get a Kirby Smart. After you get Ed O at Ole Miss or Tim Brewster.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2023, 07:57:23 AM »
Yeah, I think about 90% of the time, when a very good team fires or loses their coach, they end up worse for it.  Then they can get into a downward spiral that is tough to break.  Maybe the Vols have hit on a good one, I don't know obv.

This is one reason Ohio State's consistency is so remarkable, but of course teams kept coaches for eons back in the day as a rule.

CatsbyAZ

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2023, 11:21:24 AM »
28. UCLA 66

Little surprised to see UCLA this high, receiving 66 votes. Then again my Lindy’s preview has UCLA at 31 so there’s consensus.

QB is a question mark for the first time since Chip Kelly's first season in Westwood, RB Zach Charbonnet who powered long-hauls of backfield production is gone to the Seahawks, and the OL and the back seven of a defense that collapsed at the end of last season is rebuilt with portal transfers.

Good news is the Bruins are a stable program working with a healthy measure of goodwill by going 17-8 these past two seasons, the depth across the roster is the most robust it’s been under Chip Kelly going into his 6th season coaching UCLA, and the schedule lends itself to a third straight winning season.

Another 8 or 9 wins is doable if the roster settles right.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2023, 01:25:46 PM »
I had UCLA as my pick last year, a team that would do better than expected, and they did, early on, and ended decently.  I'm thinking Kentucky this year, but am not sure as they play Bama and @UGA and Tenn, so that could be 3 Ls off the top.  They might beat Tenn.

Mdot21

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2023, 01:43:37 PM »
James Franklin is still the coach.
correct. Franklin can't coach his way out of a paper bag. And they still don't have quite the top end talent of OSU or even Michigan imo. Both rosters are just better top to bottom. Both also just have better head coaches.

jgvol

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2023, 02:17:28 PM »
I had UCLA as my pick last year, a team that would do better than expected, and they did, early on, and ended decently.  I'm thinking Kentucky this year, but am not sure as they play Bama and @UGA and Tenn, so that could be 3 Ls off the top.  They might beat Tenn.

Told you last year....we do not lose to Kentucky.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2023, 02:28:44 PM »
There’s something nice with the AP poll is that it produces what is in essence a wisdom of crowds because it sands down all the sharp edges of a specific ballot. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2023, 03:02:11 PM »
Franklin feels like he’s in that weird spot Mark Richt was with Georgia before he was canned.  Ninety percent of fanbases around the country would love to have his results.  Penn St fans wonder what’s keeping them from being Ohio St (and Michigan of late). 
No doubt.  Ohio State's two coaches between Woody and Tressel both lived in this universe for long stretches of time.  

Ohio State had no choice but to fire Woody after he punched an opposing Player in the Gator Bowl after the 1978 season.  Truth be told, however, the decision was made somewhat easier by the fact that Woody's only ever three-game skid against The Team Up North (TTUN) was 1976-1978, his last three.  

Earle Bruce had been an assistant on Woody's NC Team in 1968 (66-71 in total) then had a couple HC jobs before tOSU grabbed him from Iowa State after firing Woody.  In his nine years as HC at Ohio State he notably bested Bo 5-4 (Bo had bested Woody 5-4-1) but after a terrific first year mostly with Woody's recruits, he slid into losing three games every year:
  • 79:  11-1, beat M, lost a CLOSE RB to USC that would have been for an NC.  
  • 80:  9-3, L to M, also lost to PSU in the Fiesta Bowl.  Team was 9-1 going into THE GAME but lost their last two.  
  • 81:  9-3, beat M and beat Navy in the Liberty Bowl.  Basically the opposite of 1980.  This team was only 7-3 going into THE GAME, but won their last two.  This team was co-champion of the BigTen but lost out to Iowa on the "longest loser" tiebreaker.  
  • 82:  9-3, beat M, beat BYU in the Holiday Bowl.  This team was 7-3 going into THE GAME but won their last two.  Ohio State and Michigan each had one league loss but Michigan played nine and Ohio State played eight league games so Michigan had a better winning percentage because 8-1>7-1.  
  • 83:  9-3, L to M, beat Pitt in the Fiesta Bowl.  This team was 8-2 heading into THE GAME and split their last two.  
  • 84:  9-3, beat M, L to USC in the Rose Bowl.  Yet another close RB loss (20-17 this time).  Similar to 83 being 8-2 going into THE GAME and splitting the last two.  
  • 85:  9-3, L to M, beat BYU in the Citrus Bowl.  Same as the two prior years being 8-2 and splitting the last two games.  
  • 86:  10-3, L to M (CLOSE, 26-24), beat aTm in the Cotton Bowl.  They had an extra game because they played Bama at the Meadowlands in the Kick Off Classic.  They lost their first two, won nine straight, lost to M, and won their bowl.  
  • 87:  6-4-1, Beat M, no bowl.  Coach Bruce was fired prior to THE GAME and the surprise 23-20 upset in Ann Arbor would be Ohio State's last win up there until Jim Tressel's first year, 2001.  
Bruce really only had one bad year, his last.  Even that was still above .500 and within a few years of that time that would have easily been good enough for a bowl.  I don't think he was fired for the ONE bad year.  He was fired because he was close but no cigar for his entire tenure.  

Then came the dark times (at least with respect to the rivalry) of John Cooper but even during that time, after 1991 the Buckeyes were generally very good, they just couldn't beat Michigan or win bowls:
  • 88:  4-6-1 L to M*, no bowl.  The other reason Bruce was fired was that recruiting had dropped off.  The cupboard was bare when Cooper arrived and it took him a few years to restock it.  
  • 89:  8-4, L to M, lost to Auburn in the HoF Bowl.  This team was 8-2 going into THE GAME but lost their last two.  
  • 90:  7-4-1, L to M, lost to Air Force in the Liberty Bowl.  This team was 7-2-1 going into THE GAME but lost their last two.  
  • 91:  8-4, L to M, lost to Syracuse in the HoF Bowl.  The loss to Syracuse along with the previous year's loss to Air Force were just inexcusable.  Ohio State EASILY beat Syracuse at their place a few months later but regular season games against teams not named Michigan were easy for Cooper.  
  • 92:  8-3-1, tied M, lost to UGA in the Citrus Bowl.  So in his fifth year Cooper FINALLY didn't lose to Michigan.  
  • 93:  10-1-1, L to M, beat BYU in the Holiday Bowl.  So in his sixth year Cooper FINALLY won a bowl game!  This team was a BigTen co-champ with Wisconsin and lost out to the Badgers on the "Longest Loser" tiebreaker.  But for the Michigan loss they'd have been in the Rose Bowl (which UW won) playing for an NC.  
  • 94:  9-4, beat M, lost to Bama in the Citrus Bowl.  So in his seventh year Cooper FINALLY beat Michigan.  This was something of a rebuilding year but ended REALLY well.  First, Cooper FINALLY got his first win over Michigan and then the bowl loss wasn't as bad as it might seem.  Bama was REALLY good that year.  They finished 12-1 with their only loss being by a single point to Florida in the SECCG and Ohio State played them to a 24-17 decision.  Given that Ohio State had three prior losses that was NOT expected.  
  • 95:  11-2, L to M, lost to TN in the Citrus Bowl.  There are a lot of Ohio State fans who still call Tennessee "Tennecheat" or "Tennecleat" over this loss.  The field was quite sloppy and apparently the Volunteers wore impermissibly long cleats.  I really don't get hung up on that because I don't care.  Ohio State was 11-0 and in the thick of the NC race before the loss to Michigan and everything after that was anti-climactic.  
  • 96:  11-1, L to M, beat ASU in the Rose Bowl.  I attended this Rose Bowl.  It was great to be there and see my team win but the whole thing was a disappointment because if it hadn't been for the loss to Michigan the Buckeyes would have been NC after UF beat FSU later that night.  
  • 97:  10-3, L to M, lost to FSU in the Sugar Bowl.  The Buckeyes were 10-1 and lost their last two.  
  • 98:  11-1, beat M, beat aTm in the Sugar Bowl.  This was Cooper's best team and a truly great team it was.  Their only loss was a strange upset to a Michigan State team coached by some guy named Saban.  I've heard he's done pretty well for himself elsewhere since then.  
  • 99:  6-6, L to M, no bowl.  
  • 00:  8-4, L to M, lost to USCe in the Outback Bowl.  

Both Bruce's and Cooper's are records that most schools would LOVE to have but when you coach at a helmet, that isn't enough.  


Mdot21

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Re: 2023 AP Preseason Poll
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2023, 03:09:27 PM »
No doubt.  Ohio State's two coaches between Woody and Tressel both lived in this universe for long stretches of time. 

Ohio State had no choice but to fire Woody after he punched an opposing Player in the Gator Bowl after the 1978 season.  Truth be told, however, the decision was made somewhat easier by the fact that Woody's only ever three-game skid against The Team Up North (TTUN) was 1976-1978, his last three. 

Earle Bruce had been an assistant on Woody's NC Team in 1968 (66-71 in total) then had a couple HC jobs before tOSU grabbed him from Iowa State after firing Woody.  In his nine years as HC at Ohio State he notably bested Bo 5-4 (Bo had bested Woody 5-4-1) but after a terrific first year mostly with Woody's recruits, he slid into losing three games every year:
  • 79:  11-1, beat M, lost a CLOSE RB to USC that would have been for an NC. 
  • 80:  9-3, L to M, also lost to PSU in the Fiesta Bowl.  Team was 9-1 going into THE GAME but lost their last two. 
  • 81:  9-3, beat M and beat Navy in the Liberty Bowl.  Basically the opposite of 1980.  This team was only 7-3 going into THE GAME, but won their last two.  This team was co-champion of the BigTen but lost out to Iowa on the "longest loser" tiebreaker. 
  • 82:  9-3, beat M, beat BYU in the Holiday Bowl.  This team was 7-3 going into THE GAME but won their last two.  Ohio State and Michigan each had one league loss but Michigan played nine and Ohio State played eight league games so Michigan had a better winning percentage because 8-1>7-1. 
  • 83:  9-3, L to M, beat Pitt in the Fiesta Bowl.  This team was 8-2 heading into THE GAME and split their last two. 
  • 84:  9-3, beat M, L to USC in the Rose Bowl.  Yet another close RB loss (20-17 this time).  Similar to 83 being 8-2 going into THE GAME and splitting the last two. 
  • 85:  9-3, L to M, beat BYU in the Citrus Bowl.  Same as the two prior years being 8-2 and splitting the last two games. 
  • 86:  10-3, L to M (CLOSE, 26-24), beat aTm in the Cotton Bowl.  They had an extra game because they played Bama at the Meadowlands in the Kick Off Classic.  They lost their first two, won nine straight, lost to M, and won their bowl. 
  • 87:  6-4-1, Beat M, no bowl.  Coach Bruce was fired prior to THE GAME and the surprise 23-20 upset in Ann Arbor would be Ohio State's last win up there until Jim Tressel's first year, 2001. 
Bruce really only had one bad year, his last.  Even that was still above .500 and within a few years of that time that would have easily been good enough for a bowl.  I don't think he was fired for the ONE bad year.  He was fired because he was close but no cigar for his entire tenure. 

Then came the dark times (at least with respect to the rivalry) of John Cooper but even during that time, after 1991 the Buckeyes were generally very good, they just couldn't beat Michigan or win bowls:
  • 88:  4-6-1 L to M*, no bowl.  The other reason Bruce was fired was that recruiting had dropped off.  The cupboard was bare when Cooper arrived and it took him a few years to restock it. 
  • 89:  8-4, L to M, lost to Auburn in the HoF Bowl.  This team was 8-2 going into THE GAME but lost their last two. 
  • 90:  7-4-1, L to M, lost to Air Force in the Liberty Bowl.  This team was 7-2-1 going into THE GAME but lost their last two. 
  • 91:  8-4, L to M, lost to Syracuse in the HoF Bowl.  The loss to Syracuse along with the previous year's loss to Air Force were just inexcusable.  Ohio State EASILY beat Syracuse at their place a few months later but regular season games against teams not named Michigan were easy for Cooper. 
  • 92:  8-3-1, tied M, lost to UGA in the Citrus Bowl.  So in his fifth year Cooper FINALLY didn't lose to Michigan. 
  • 93:  10-1-1, L to M, beat BYU in the Holiday Bowl.  So in his sixth year Cooper FINALLY won a bowl game!  This team was a BigTen co-champ with Wisconsin and lost out to the Badgers on the "Longest Loser" tiebreaker.  But for the Michigan loss they'd have been in the Rose Bowl (which UW won) playing for an NC. 
  • 94:  9-4, beat M, lost to Bama in the Citrus Bowl.  So in his seventh year Cooper FINALLY beat Michigan.  This was something of a rebuilding year but ended REALLY well.  First, Cooper FINALLY got his first win over Michigan and then the bowl loss wasn't as bad as it might seem.  Bama was REALLY good that year.  They finished 12-1 with their only loss being by a single point to Florida in the SECCG and Ohio State played them to a 24-17 decision.  Given that Ohio State had three prior losses that was NOT expected. 
  • 95:  11-2, L to M, lost to TN in the Citrus Bowl.  There are a lot of Ohio State fans who still call Tennessee "Tennecheat" or "Tennecleat" over this loss.  The field was quite sloppy and apparently the Volunteers wore impermissibly long cleats.  I really don't get hung up on that because I don't care.  Ohio State was 11-0 and in the thick of the NC race before the loss to Michigan and everything after that was anti-climactic. 
  • 96:  11-1, L to M, beat ASU in the Rose Bowl.  I attended this Rose Bowl.  It was great to be there and see my team win but the whole thing was a disappointment because if it hadn't been for the loss to Michigan the Buckeyes would have been NC after UF beat FSU later that night. 
  • 97:  10-3, L to M, lost to FSU in the Sugar Bowl.  The Buckeyes were 10-1 and lost their last two. 
  • 98:  11-1, beat M, beat aTm in the Sugar Bowl.  This was Cooper's best team and a truly great team it was.  Their only loss was a strange upset to a Michigan State team coached by some guy named Saban.  I've heard he's done pretty well for himself elsewhere since then. 
  • 99:  6-6, L to M, no bowl. 
  • 00:  8-4, L to M, lost to USCe in the Outback Bowl. 

Both Bruce's and Cooper's are records that most schools would LOVE to have but when you coach at a helmet, that isn't enough. 
great post, but UGA/Richt is a little bit different.

Georgia didn't have the history of an OSU or even a Penn State- they weren't a helmet and they still went through with firing Richt and going after Kirby because they wanted to become a helmet. Richt is arguably the best HC that Georgia ever had and they still canned him. They decided to go all-in on winning and bring home Kirby Smart and well needless to say it's paid off in a huge way for them. 

 

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