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Topic: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1120 on: March 06, 2023, 08:51:27 AM »
LoL.
I want the AD to give up on the failed HC. I don't want the team to give up.

I think I agree with your assessment of Wisconsin:
  • Lose to tOSU, finish 17-14: out.
  • Beat tOSU, lose to Iowa, finish 18-14: pray for a soft bubble.
  • Beat tOSU and Iowa, lose to Michigan State, finish 19-14: probably in.
  • Beat tOSU, Iowa, and MSU, finish 20-14 or better: in.


UW is capable of beating all of those teams.

It is also capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with any of those teams.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

FearlessF

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1121 on: March 06, 2023, 08:53:21 AM »
can be said for every team in the B1G, save the Gophers
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

ELA

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1122 on: March 06, 2023, 09:07:31 AM »
LoL.
I want the AD to give up on the failed HC. I don't want the team to give up.

I think I agree with your assessment of Wisconsin:
  • Lose to tOSU, finish 17-14: out. 10.8% chance, #7 team out
  • Beat tOSU, lose to Iowa, finish 18-14: pray for a soft bubble. 39.4% chance, #2 team out
  • Beat tOSU and Iowa, lose to Michigan State, finish 19-14: probably in. 54.4% chance, Dayton
  • Beat tOSU, Iowa, and MSU, finish 20-14 or better: in. 76.6% chance, #10 seed
FWIW, Torvik odds in red

ELA

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1123 on: March 06, 2023, 03:58:22 PM »
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ
3/6 Update (now using actual standings to determine regular season conference champ, and excluding sub .500 teams)

South vs. East; Midwest vs. West

NCAA
SOUTH
  • #1 Alabama vs. #16 Texas A&M-CC/SE Missouri State
  • #8 Memphis vs. #9 USC
  • #5 INDIANA vs. #12 Sam Houston State
  • #4 Virginia vs. #13 Furman
  • #3 Arizona vs. #14 Kennesaw State
  • #6 Florida Atlantic vs. #11 NC State
  • #7 Auburn vs. #10 Providence
  • #2 Baylor vs. #15 Colgate

MIDWEST
  • #1 Houston vs. #16 NC Central/Fairleigh Dickinson
  • #8 West Virginia vs. #9 ILLINOIS
  • #5 MICHIGAN STATE vs. #12 Drake
  • #4 Tennessee vs. #13 Kent State
  • #3 Marquette vs. #14 Dayton
  • #6 Saint Mary's vs. #11 Oklahoma State
  • #7 Iowa State vs. #10 Arkansas
  • #2 PURDUE vs. #15 Youngstown State

WEST
  • #1 UCLA vs. #16 Grambling
  • #8 MARYLAND vs. #9 Boise State
  • #5 Kentucky vs. #12 Oral Roberts
  • #4 San Diego State vs. #13 Iona
  • #3 Gonzaga vs. #14 Montana State
  • #6 Texas A&M vs. #11 Nevada/North Texas
  • #7 Creighton vs. #10 IOWA
  • #2 Texas vs. #15 UC Irvine

EAST
  • #1 Kansas vs. #16 South Alabama
  • #8 Missouri vs. #9 NORTHWESTERN
  • #5 Miami vs. #12 Charleston
  • #4 Xavier vs. #13 Yale
  • #3 Kansas State vs. #14 UNC Asheville
  • #6 Duke vs. #11 PENN STATE/Mississippi State
  • #7 TCU vs. #10 Utah State
  • #2 Connecticut vs. #15 Vermont

NIT
PISCATAWAY
  • #1 RUTGERS vs. #8 Morehead State
  • #4 Florida vs. #5 UAB
  • #3 Texas Tech vs. #6 Washington State
  • #2 Pittsburgh vs. #7 Hofstra

CHAPEL HILL
  • #1 North Carolina vs. #8 Howard
  • #4 Liberty vs. #5 Villanova
  • #3 VCU vs. #6 NEBRASKA
  • #2 Vanderbilt vs. #7 Southern Miss

ANN ARBOR
  • #1 MICHIGAN vs. #8 Alcorn State
  • #4 Seton Hall vs. #5 Bradley
  • #3 Utah Valley vs. #6 Toledo
  • #2 Oregon vs. #7 Virginia Tech

TEMPE
  • #1 Arizona State vs. #8 Eastern Washington
  • #4 New Mexico vs. #5 Santa Clara
  • #3 Clemson vs. #6 Cincinnati
  • #2 WISCONSIN vs. #7 Louisiana

BIG TEN TEAMS
  • #2 Purdue
  • #5 Indiana - down from #4
  • #5 Michigan State - up from #6
  • #8 Maryland - down from #6
  • #9 Illinois - up from #10
  • #9 Northwestern - down from #8
  • #10 Iowa - up from #11
  • FF11 Penn State - up from NIT #2
  • NIT #1 Rutgers - down from FF11
  • NIT #1 Michigan
  • NIT #2 Wisconsin
  • NIT #6 Nebraska - down from NIT #5

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1124 on: March 06, 2023, 05:00:46 PM »
End of regular season review of the tier system:

The final tiers were established quite a while ago (it is somewhere in this thread).  Here they are with how teams finished in terms of net upsets:

  • Purdue -3
  • Indiana +1, MSU even, Rutgers -2
  • Northwestern +2, Maryland even, Illinois -1, Iowa -1, Michigan +1, Penn State -1, Wisconsin -2
  • Nebraska even
  • Ohio State +4
  • Minnesota +2


With the MN@MSU game being cancelled there ended up being 139 B1G BB games this season.  Our system (retroactively for teams that moved tiers) correctly projected the winner in 103 and missed on 36 so we got almost 75% or three out of four correct.  

In all honesty, I think that is about as good as could be done because a certain amount of upsets just happen and can't really be predicted.  Only two teams were outside of +/-2:
+4 Ohio State:
Ohio State had five positive upsets and one negative upset (downset?):

  • 12/8 win vs RU was a positive upset
  • 1/1 win at NU was a positive upset
  • 1/21 win vs IA was a positive upset
  • 2/26 win vs IL was a positive upset
  • 3/1 win vs UMD was a positive upset
  • 1/12 loss vs MN was a negative upset
A couple things are going on here.  First, teams near the bottom tend to end up with more positive than negative upsets simply because they have more chances to get a positive upset.  Ohio State's projection was 1-19 so they had 19 opportunities to pull off a positive upset and they got five of them which is about average (see above, we were wrong about 25% of the time overall).  They only had one opportunity to be upset and they were.  

Second, Ohio State was actually a pretty good team in Nov/Dec and they appear to have been a pretty good team in March as well.  They just flat out sucked in January and February.  It is hard to calibrate a predictive system around a midseason swoon like that.  

The other thing is that within the framework of our system, moving Ohio State wouldn't have fixed this, it would just have made them strongly negative instead of strongly positive because if they had been a tier higher that would have eliminated a few positive upsets but it would have created a few negative upsets.  

-3 Purdue:
Purdue had one positive upset (the win at MSU) and four negative upsets (the two losses to IU and the losses to NU and UMD).  Conversely to Ohio State, Purdue was at the top so their projection was 18-2 meaning that they had 18 opportunities to be upset and only two opportunities to upset someone else.  

Then there were teams at +/-2:
  • -2 Rutgers, 4+ and 6-:  I think this is mostly due to the injury issues.  Four of their six negative upsets occurred in the last few weeks of the season (2/14-now).  
  • +2 Northwestern, 6+ and 4-:  They were just a hokey team that seemed to actually be better on the road than at home.  They had two pairs of road win series sweeps (won in Columbus, lost at home to tOSU; won in Piscataway, lost at home to RU).  
  • -2 Wisconsin, +2, -4:  Maybe they should have been moved down but then they'd have had a slew of positive upsets instead.  
  • +2 Minnesota:  Their projection was 0-20 so they had 20 opportunities to pull off an upset and only capitalized twice.  That is less then the average upsets.  
Teams with the most total upsets (good or bad):
  • 10:  NU, RU
  • 6:  UW, tOSU
  • 5:  PU, IU, IL, IA, PSU
  • 4:  MSU, UNL
  • 3:  M
  • 2:  UMD, MN


medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1125 on: March 06, 2023, 05:03:19 PM »
End of regular season review of the tier system:
So, do you guys like doing this?  Do you find it to be informative and worthwhile or am I just basically doing it for myself?  Ie, should we continue doing it next year?

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1126 on: March 07, 2023, 07:54:35 AM »
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

847badgerfan

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1127 on: March 07, 2023, 07:58:31 AM »
So, do you guys like doing this?  Do you find it to be informative and worthwhile or am I just basically doing it for myself?  Ie, should we continue doing it next year?
I love it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

boilerbanger

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1128 on: March 07, 2023, 08:25:19 AM »
So, do you guys like doing this?  Do you find it to be informative and worthwhile or am I just basically doing it for myself?  Ie, should we continue doing it next year?
yes, really enjoy it.

grillrat

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1129 on: March 07, 2023, 10:04:57 AM »


-3 Purdue:
Purdue had one positive upset (the win at MSU) and four negative upsets (the two losses to IU and the losses to NU and UMD).  Conversely to Ohio State, Purdue was at the top so their projection was 18-2 meaning that they had 18 opportunities to be upset and only two opportunities to upset someone else. 



Just being picky, but Purdue is at -3 because of the home loss to Rutgers.  One of the IU losses was expected.
I absolutely do enjoy these though.  Thank you for all the work you put into them during the season.

boilerbanger

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1130 on: March 07, 2023, 10:09:16 AM »
@medinabuckeye1 @ELA @847badgerfan et all ...

Need some outside perspective on my boilers ... my thoughts are if we can hit >40% on 3s in the tournament we are really tough to beat, first half vs Illinois we hit 50% (6/12) and were up 20 at half, second half (0/6) from 3 and we gave up the lead.  To me it is as simple as making shots, I feel we generally get good looks from 3.  If we aren't hitting 3s the game will be a dog fight (like Wisconsin game).  Last years team wouldn't have been able to win games when missing shots, this years team I think plays good enough D to keep us in those games.

Thoughts?

grillrat

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1131 on: March 07, 2023, 10:09:27 AM »
So who is COTY?  Collins or Painter?

Frankly, I could see an argument for either.

Guessing 1st team Big Ten to be Edey, TJD, Murray (all three of those unanimous), and then the other two likely being Boo and Picket.  Any dark horses?  Dickinson?  J. Young?

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1132 on: March 07, 2023, 10:12:26 AM »
I love it.
yes, really enjoy it.
Ok, thanks.  I'll plan to keep it going then.  

If anyone wants to see "the sausage", here are the nuts and bolts behind it:
I have a giant spreadsheet which starts with the 14 teams.  With 14 teams, each has 13 opponents so if we played a full double-round-robin that would be 26 games.  We don't, we play 20 so each team has six "games not scheduled".  After team name the next six columns are for those six games not scheduled.  The first three are labeled "noAway" and are for the teams that are not visited and the three after that are labeled "noHome" and are for the teams not hosted.  In the case of Purdue top team below) they did not visit Illinois, Iowa, and Rutgers.  They did not host Michigan, Northwestern, and Wisconsin.  

Then, once we agree on initial tiers I add in each teams' hypothetical projected record in a full, 26-game double-round robin.  In Purdue's case this was 23-3 with losses in Bloomington, Piscataway, and East Lansing.  This is entered in "RR-W" and "RR-L".  

The next two columns are labeled "miss-W" and "miss-L".  Here I look at the games not scheduled and determine how many would have been projected wins and how many would have been projected losses.  In Purdue's case this year, they missed five scheduled wins and only one scheduled loss.  

The next two columns are labeled "miss-W" and "miss-L".  I had to add these two when COVID hit to account for scheduled games not played.  As you can see, this year MSU missed a scheduled projected win (vsMN) and Minnesota missed a scheduled projected loss (atMSU) and the other 139 scheduled B1G games were played.  

The next two columns are "Proj-W" and "Proj-L".  Those are projected wins and projected losses.  These columns are formulaic as they simply subtract the missed games from the hypothetical projected double-round-robin record to get a projection for the games actually played or to be played.  

The next three columns compare the projected record on a 26-game double-round-robin to the projected record for games actually played or to be played.  As you can see, Nebraska, Illinois, and Iowa had the most beneficial schedules while Indiana had the most detrimental schedule.  

The next three columns, "+Var", "-Var", and "Var" are for upsets.  Each positive upset is +1 in the "+Var" column.  Each negative upset is -1 in the "-Var" column.  The "Var" column is formulaic and simply nets the upsets.  So for the top few teams this year:
  • Purdue was net -3 with one positive and four negative upsets.  
  • Indiana was net +1 with three positive and two negative upsets.  
  • Rutgers was net -2 with four positive and six negative upsets.  
  • Michigan State was net even with two up and two down.  
The next two columns "Conf-W" and "Conf-L" are the projected conference record for each team after accounting for everything listed above, ie:
  • Initial projected double-round-robin record
  • Less the six games not scheduled
  • Less any games not played for other reasons
  • Adjusted for upsets
  • Equals projected conference record.  
Then I have two columns for OOC records which I add just so that I can show the projected overall record as well.  


Next I have a column that repeats the team name (this is because at this point the spreadsheet is so damn wide that it is hard to follow it all the way across.  

After that I have two columns that give me the projected overall record.  These are labeled "ProjT-W" and "ProjT-L" and simply add together the projected conference records and the OOC records.  

Next is a column labeled "Chk".  This is simply a check figure column to make sure I have everything entered right.  

Everything to the right of that is for projected then actual results.  I have the entire B1G schedule entered into my spreadsheet.  When I set it up preseason I use lowercase "w" and "l" to denote projected wins and losses and when the games actually get played I switch to uppercase "W" and "L" to denote actual wins and loses.  When an actual result deviates from the projection that result gets added to the various "Var" columns for upsets.  

The "ProjC-W" and "ProjC-L" columns have nothing to do with the columns to the left.  They are formulas that come from the w's and l's on the schedule.  Then the "Chk" column compares the calculated W's and L's to the scheduled W's and L's.  If they match (right now they all do) that column is like it should be.  If they don't, I need to fix something.  


So, when we get into next year's BB thread, as soon as you see that the B1G has released the schedule, please let me know.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #1133 on: March 07, 2023, 10:14:32 AM »
Just being picky, but Purdue is at -3 because of the home loss to Rutgers.  One of the IU losses was expected.
I absolutely do enjoy these though.  Thank you for all the work you put into them during the season.
You are absolutely right.  I just missed that.  

 

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