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Topic: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread

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847badgerfan

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #336 on: December 17, 2022, 10:09:33 AM »
Top-4 finish in the B1G would be wonderful. I think they can pull that off, with only one more solid contributor stepping up. Maybe Neith is that guy. He's been out sick, apparently?? Has not played in over a month now.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

bayareabadger

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #337 on: December 17, 2022, 04:24:23 PM »
Top-4 finish in the B1G would be wonderful. I think they can pull that off, with only one more solid contributor stepping up. Maybe Neith is that guy. He's been out sick, apparently?? Has not played in over a month now.
The weird part is that if he came back, he would just show up the deepest position they already have.

what would be nicest is it if the young backup center could show up. But also not mind if the data transfer point guard suddenly became OK. 

but for now that top group is pretty good.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #338 on: December 19, 2022, 01:59:22 AM »
FWIW:
I think that Ohio State needs to drop down a tier. The Buckeyes simply aren't very good. 

  • They needed a probable officiating mistake and a miracle heave to beat Rutgers at home. Rutgers isn't a bad team and that would have been a great win on the road but at home it is pretty weak. 
  • They just lost to a weak North Carolina team.
  • Their only quality wins are the miracle over Rutgers, a win over TxTech in Maui, and *MAYBE* the win over Cincinnati. 


MaximumSam

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #339 on: December 19, 2022, 08:50:19 AM »
FWIW:
I think that Ohio State needs to drop down a tier. The Buckeyes simply aren't very good.

  • They needed a probable officiating mistake and a miracle heave to beat Rutgers at home. Rutgers isn't a bad team and that would have been a great win on the road but at home it is pretty weak.
  • They just lost to a weak North Carolina team.
  • Their only quality wins are the miracle over Rutgers, a win over TxTech in Maui, and *MAYBE* the win over Cincinnati.


18th on KenPom. 25th on Torvik. I'm pretty happy given the uncertainty they had coming in. They also have been missing a starter the past two games and Eugene Brown has yet to play. Hard for me to see anything but goodness in that. The B1G, yet again, has a lot of good teams, so tiers are going to be especially difficult this year.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #340 on: December 19, 2022, 11:39:46 AM »
18th on KenPom. 25th on Torvik. I'm pretty happy given the uncertainty they had coming in. They also have been missing a starter the past two games and Eugene Brown has yet to play. Hard for me to see anything but goodness in that. The B1G, yet again, has a lot of good teams, so tiers are going to be especially difficult this year.
I hope you are right, but I'm not seeing it.  

Maybe the issue is that instead of moving Illinois and Indiana down, we should move Purdue up.  

Current tiers are:
  • PU, IL, IU
  • IA, tOSU, RU, UMD, MSU
  • UW, M, PSU
  • UNL, NU
  • BLANK
  • MN
Upthread @ELA suggested moving IL and IU down and UW up.  Part of the problem, as I see it, is that creates a MONSTER tier-2 including more than half of the conference's teams (IL, IU, IA, tOSU, RU, UMD, MSU, UW).  In theory that might be correct but it probably isn't so we almost certainly need some separation there.  

If we move Purdue up instead of IL/IU down and also move UW up that gives us:
  • PU
  • IL, IU
  • IA, tOSU, RU, UMD, MSU, UW
  • M, PSU
  • UNL, NU
  • BLANK
  • MN

Tier-3 then has six teams which is probably too many but we can wait that out and see how those teams perform the rest of December and the first few league games in January to determine which teams look a little better (move up to tier-2) and/or which teams look a little worse (move down to tier-4).  

The net effect of those changes would result in the following projected final standings:
  • 19-1 Purdue, up from 16-4.  The Boilermakers do not play in Champaign or Piscataway so their four current projected losses are in Bloomington, Columbus, College Park, and East Lansing.  With the change all but the game in Bloomington become wins.  
  • 14-6 Indiana, no change.  A game in Madison would become a projected loss but the Hoosiers do not play in Madison.  
  • 13-7 Illinois, down from 14-6.  The game in Madison becomes a loss.  
  • 12-8 Iowa, no change.  A home game against Purdue would become a loss but the Hawkeyes do not host the Boilermakers.  
  • 12-8 Rutgers, no change.  Same as Iowa. 
  • 12-8 Wisconsin, up from 10-10.  The home game against IL becomes a win as does the road game against Northwestern.   A home game against IU and a road game against Nebraska would also become wins but the Badgers do not host the Hoosiers nor visit the Cornhuskers.  
  • 11-9 Ohio State, down from 12-8.  The home game against Purdue becomes a loss.  
  • 11-9 Maryland, down from 12-8.  Same as Ohio State.  
  • 10-10 Michigan State, down from 11-9.  Same as Ohio State.  
  • 9-11 Michigan, no change.  
  • 8-12 Penn State, no change.  
  • 5-15 Nebraska, no change.  
  • 4-16 Northwestern, down from 5-15.  The home game against Wisconsin becomes a loss.  
  • 0-20 Minnesota, no change.  


FWIW:
I do not expect either that Purdue will actually win 19 games nor that Minnesota will actually lose all 20.  I do think that the Boilermakers are good enough to potentially win every game and that the Gophers are bad enough to potentially lose every game but upsets do happen and when you are projected to go 19-1 or 0-20 those potential upsets are all going the same way for you so you'll probably move toward .500.  

MaximumSam

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #341 on: December 19, 2022, 12:47:54 PM »
I hope you are right, but I'm not seeing it. 

Maybe the issue is that instead of moving Illinois and Indiana down, we should move Purdue up. 

Well, Purdue just went to OT at Nebraska and got all they wanted at home to Davidson. Certainly, they've been the best team in the conference, but I'm not sure that warrants moving them up right now. They have to go through the meat grinder like everyone else.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #342 on: December 19, 2022, 02:44:37 PM »
Well, Purdue just went to OT at Nebraska and got all they wanted at home to Davidson. Certainly, they've been the best team in the conference, but I'm not sure that warrants moving them up right now. They have to go through the meat grinder like everyone else.
Have your arguments ready for January 9.  

League play restarts with Iowa at Nebraska on Thursday, December 29.  Between then and the weekend of Saturday/Sunday, January 7/8 the conference's teams all have at least two league games, some have three, and Iowa has four:
  • Team:  game1, game2, game3, game4:  projected record, current upset status (blank if even)
  • Purdue:  vsRU, @tOSU, @PSU:  2-1
  • Illinois:  @NU, vsUW:  2-0, -1
  • Indiana:  @IA, vsNU:  1-1
  • Iowa:  @UNL, @PSU , vsIU, @RU:  2-2, -1
  • Ohio State:  @NU, vsPU, @UMD:  2-1
  • Rutgers:  @PU, vsUMD, vsIA:  2-1
  • Maryland:  @M, @RU, vstOSU:  1-2
  • Michigan State:  vsUNL, vsM:  2-0
  • Wisconsin:  vsMN, @IL:  1-1, +1
  • Michigan:  vsUMD, vsPSU, @MSU:  2-1 
  • Penn State:  vsIA, @M, vsPU:  1-2, 
  • Nebraska:  vsIA, @MSU, @MN:  1-2
  • Northwestern:  vstOSU, vsIL, @IU:  0-3, +1
  • Minnesota:  @UW, vsUNL:  0-2

My intention is to let things ride through the weekend of January 7/8 then rearrange the tiers as necessary on Monday, January 9.  

Vis-a-vis Ohio State specifically, I expect them to lose one or both of the games they are currently projected to win between now and then (@NU, vsPU).  If the Buckeyes lose to Purdue that is addressed by moving Purdue up as I expect to do so long as Purdue doesn't lose one of their other two games.  If the Buckeyes lose at Northwestern then I think they'll have to move down but we'll see what happens.  

ELA

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #343 on: December 19, 2022, 04:02:12 PM »
My first resume only Bracket of the year (2/3 SOR, 1/3 KenPom), for now using SOR to determine regular season champ, and KenPom for tourney champ
12/19 Update

NCAA
EAST
  • #1 Connecticut vs. #16 Colgate/Wagner
  • #8 North Carolina vs. #9 ILLINOIS
  • #5 WISCONSIN vs. #12 Yale
  • #4 West Virginia vs. #13 Iona
  • #3 Tennessee vs. #14 James Madison
  • #6 INDIANA vs. #11 Charleston
  • #7 Xavier vs. #10 Kentucky
  • #2 Virginia vs. #15 Norfolk State


MIDWEST
  • #1 PURDUE vs. #16 Longwood/Texas A&M-CC
  • #8 St. John's vs. #9 Marquette
  • #5 Virginia Tech vs. #12 Saint Louis
  • #4 Texas vs. #13 Kent State
  • #3 Baylor vs. #14 Drake
  • #6 Memphis vs. #11 IOWA
  • #7 Florida Atlantic vs. #10 Boise State
  • #2 Alabama vs. #15 Youngstown State

WEST
  • #1 Kansas vs. #16 SIU Edwardsville
  • #8 MARYLAND vs. #9 Auburn
  • #5 Utah State vs. #12 PENN STATE/Oklahoma
  • #4 Duke vs. #13 Oral Roberts
  • #3 Gonzaga vs. #14 UC Irvine
  • #6 New Mexico vs. #11 Sam Houston State
  • #7 Kansas State vs. #10 Missouri
  • #2 UCLA vs. #15 Montana State

SOUTH
  • #1 Houston vs. #16 Grambling
  • #8 Iowa State vs. #9 OHIO STATE
  • #5 Arizona State vs. #12 UNLV/NORTHWESTERN
  • #4 Mississippi State vs. #13 UM Lowell
  • #3 Arkansas vs. #14 Liberty
  • #6 Miami vs. #11 TCU
  • #7 San Diego State vs. #10 MICHIGAN STATE
  • #2 Arizona vs. #15 Furman

NIT
RALEIGH
  • #1 NC State vs. #8 High Point
  • #4 Southern Miss vs. #5 Central Florida
  • #3 Saint Mary's vs. #6 Creighton
  • #2 Texas Tech vs. #7 Washington

BATON ROUGE
  • #1 LSU vs. #8 Fort Wayne
  • #4 USC vs. #5 RUTGERS
  • #3 Oklahoma State vs. #6 Florida Gulf Coast
  • #2 Nevada vs. #7 Louisiana

BIRMINGHAM
  • #1 UAB vs. #8 Northwestern State
  • #4 UNC Wilmington vs. #5 Marshall
  • #3 Oregon vs. #6 Providence
  • #2 MICHIGAN vs. #7 Florida


DENTON
  • #1 North Texas vs. #8 American
  • #4 Butler vs. #5 Fordham
  • #3 Ole Miss vs. #6 Clemson
  • #2 Utah vs. #7 UC Santa Barbara

Nebraska is the #8 team out of the NIT

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #344 on: December 20, 2022, 11:16:10 AM »
12/19 Update
I think you are probably right but this would project VERY poorly in the Tournament.  You have:
  • #1 Purdue
  • #5 Wisconsin
  • #6 Indiana
  • #8 Maryland
  • #9 Illinois, Ohio State
  • #10 Michigan State
  • #11 Iowa
  • #12 Penn State, Northwestern (both as play-ins)
Based on the 37 NCAA Tournaments since expansion to 64 teams in 1985, those seeds:

#1 seeds (Purdue):

  • 147-1 99.32% almost always win their opener
  • 126 of 148, 85.14% make the S16
  • 101 of 148, 68.24% make the E8
  • 61 of 148, 41.22% make the F4
  • 38 of 148, 25.68% make the CG
  • 24 of 148, 16.22% win the NC
#5 seeds (Wisconsin):
  • 95 of 148, 64.19% win their opener
  • 50 of 148, 33.78% make the S16
  • 10 of 148, 6.76% make the E8
  • 7 of 148, 4.73% make the F4
  • 3 of 148, 2.03% make the CG
  • NONE have won the NC
#6 seeds (Indiana):
  • 91 of 148, 61.49% win their opener
  • 43 of 148, 29.05% make the S16
  • 15 of 148, 10,14% make the E8
  • 3 of 148, 2.03% make the F4
  • 2 of 148, 1.35% make the CG
  • 1 of 148, 0.68% win the NC
#8 seeds (Maryland):
  • 71 of 148, 47.94% win their opener
  • 15 of 148, 10.14% make the S16
  • 9 of 148, 6.08% make the E8
  • 6 of 148, 4.05% make the F4
  • 4 of 148, 2.70% make the CG
  • 1 of 148, 0.68% win the NC
#9 seeds (Illinois, Ohio State):
  • 77 of 148, 52.03% win their opener
  • 7 of 148, 4.73% make the S16
  • 4 of 148, 2.70% make the E8
  • 1 of 148, 0.68% make the F4
  • NONE have made the CG
#10 seeds (Michigan State):
  • 58 of 148, 39.19% win their opener
  • 24 of 148, 16.22% make the S16
  • 9 of 148, 6.08% make the E8
  • 1 of 148, 0.68% make the F4
  • NONE have made the CG
#11 seeds (Iowa):
  • 57 of 148, 38.51% win their opener
  • 26 of 148, 17.57% make the S16
  • 9 of 148, 6.08% make the E8
  • 5 of 148, 3.38% make the F4
  • NONE have made the CG
#12 seeds play-in's (Penn State, Northwestern):
  • Half win the play-in game (all further percentages should be cut in half to reflect that they have only a 50/50 chance of actually being the #12 seed)
  • 53 of 148, 35.81% win their "real" opener
  • 22 of 148, 14.86% make the S16
  • 2 of 148, 1.35% make the E8
  • NONE have made the F4
Add it all up and based on your projected seedings, our league would be expected to:
  • Get nine teams into the field of 64 (the eight that are in and one of the two play-in teams)
  • Get about five teams to the second game (4.9054)
  • Get about two teams to the S16 (2.1622)
  • Get about one team to the E8 (1.1014)
  • A little better than a 50/50 chance at getting a team to the F4 (0.5743)
  • A little under a one-in-three chance of getting a team to the CG (0.3176)
  • A little under a one-in-five chance of winning the NC (0.1757)
The problem is that more than half of our chance at anything E8 alone comes from #1 seed Purdue and well . . . they are Purdue.  




ELA

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #345 on: December 21, 2022, 04:49:36 PM »
Iowa without Kris Murray is a totally different team.  Lost to Wisconsin, now losing at home to Eastern Illinois

847badgerfan

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #346 on: December 22, 2022, 06:05:25 AM »
Iowa 83

3-9 Eastern Illinois 92


AT Iowa? 

For real?
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

ELA

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #348 on: December 22, 2022, 10:12:35 AM »
Iowa 83

3-9 Eastern Illinois 92


AT Iowa?

For real?
That changes my perception of Wisconsin's win at Iowa:
Iowa without Kris Murray is a totally different team.  Lost to Wisconsin, now losing at home to Eastern Illinois
It looks like maybe UW>IA should be attributed to Iowa being terrible in their current state.

ELA

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Re: 2022-2023 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #349 on: December 22, 2022, 10:19:33 AM »
Hunter Dickinson tried to kick a guy in the face last night, he has to be the easiest player to hate in Big Ten history

 

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