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Topic: 2021 Awards Season

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #84 on: December 12, 2021, 12:58:39 PM »
All of this is where college football suffers from lack of detailed statistics. 

Maybe sites like PFF are trying to adhere their NFL stuff onto college, but you cant really do that. 
NFL teams are very close in terms of quality, say 40-60 on a scale from 0-100.  College football teams are more like 1-99 on that scale.  And related to that, NFL schedules are much more even, my an order of magnitude when compared to college.

Think about Dre Bly.  Dude shows up as a FR, nabs 11 INTs.  Everybody's All-American.  No Thorpe Award from the simpleton voters, because they need at least a year to digest anything.  Only gets 9 INTs the rest of his career.  I say 'only' because people seem to tend to take their initial exposure to someone and set that as the median.  So Bly looks like he got worse, due to his INTs decreasing when in all likelihood, they threw his way less.

% of passes faced or defended would be a useful stat to have widely available.  For a Karlaftis or Vince Wilfork, number of blockers per snap would be useful.  Number of sacks or TFL while unblocked would be interesting to know, too.

Anyway, I'm not going to fault PFF for trying, but at the same time, it's silly to cite it. 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #85 on: December 12, 2021, 12:59:30 PM »
the best corner will have zero stats, because....  no one has the guts to throw his way
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #86 on: December 12, 2021, 01:00:52 PM »
Then Charles Woodson and Deion Sanders must have sucked!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #87 on: December 12, 2021, 01:18:46 PM »
the best corner will have zero stats, because....  no one has the guts to throw his way
Then Charles Woodson and Deion Sanders must have sucked!
Again, you have to look at the rest of the roster.

Let's say you're 2021 Purdue, and you're up against Michigan with Woodson. Woodson is going to shadow David Bell all game long. 

That doesn't mean you don't throw Bell's way, because nobody else on the roster is anywhere near as good of a receiver as Bell... AND because it's not like the rest of Michigan's defense sucks. 

It probably means you don't throw Bell's way as often, but you're not going to win not throwing to him at all. 

Now, let's say you're 2021 Ohio State. You don't throw Woodson's way, because you have three incredible receivers and whoever isn't guarded by Woodson is probably in a positive mismatch. You have the luxury of not throwing that way. 

FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #88 on: December 12, 2021, 01:19:58 PM »
I guess some opponents had the guts, how'd that work out?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #89 on: December 12, 2021, 01:49:54 PM »
Again, you have to look at the rest of the roster.

Let's say you're 2021 Purdue, and you're up against Michigan with Woodson. Woodson is going to shadow David Bell all game long.

That doesn't mean you don't throw Bell's way, because nobody else on the roster is anywhere near as good of a receiver as Bell... AND because it's not like the rest of Michigan's defense sucks.

It probably means you don't throw Bell's way as often, but you're not going to win not throwing to him at all.

Now, let's say you're 2021 Ohio State. You don't throw Woodson's way, because you have three incredible receivers and whoever isn't guarded by Woodson is probably in a positive mismatch. You have the luxury of not throwing that way.

The flip side is, some decent enough corner could go very unchallenged if the other corner just sucks brutally. 

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #90 on: December 12, 2021, 01:53:56 PM »

Quote
Anyway, I'm not going to fault PFF for trying, but at the same time, it's silly to cite it. 
Certainly not any sillier than voting total tackles of whatever stat there is. PFF is, IMO, a little sketchy for college, mostly because I just don't believe they watch every game and grade every play. But I don't doubt they watch at least the best teams and best players.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #91 on: December 12, 2021, 01:55:01 PM »

Maybe sites like PFF are trying to adhere their NFL stuff onto college, but you cant really do that. 
NFL teams are very close in terms of quality, say 40-60 on a scale from 0-100.  College football teams are more like 1-99 on that scale.  And related to that, NFL schedules are much more even, my an order of magnitude when compared to college.

.................

% of passes faced or defended would be a useful stat to have widely available.  For a Karlaftis or Vince Wilfork, number of blockers per snap would be useful.  Number of sacks or TFL while unblocked would be interesting to know, too.

The first part is not really a thing. They pay people (mostly different kinds of former coaches) to go through every play and grade players. I think there's a small range of points you can get (maybe 0,1,2 or something like that), and then they do it for every play. So it's very much about did you do your job, maybe with some level of opponent adjustment. 

There exists % of passes faced and defended. Those are pretty solid, but not so public without paying for it. Number of blockers per snap would be kinda useless becuase of the tight range, but percentage doubled, tripled and chipped would be interesting. I've not seen it, but bet someone has it. The unblocked number would be kinda wonky because often times a player is unblocked becuase they're so fast they get to a place before be blocker does, plus scheme factors. I suppose you could have stats factoring out busts, but it would be, again, wonky. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #92 on: December 12, 2021, 02:08:23 PM »
Gee, I hope they're objective.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #93 on: December 12, 2021, 02:09:28 PM »
Certainly not any sillier than voting total tackles of whatever stat there is. PFF is, IMO, a little sketchy for college, mostly because I just don't believe they watch every game and grade every play. But I don't doubt they watch at least the best teams and best players.

It's not silly to cite what actually happens on the field, lol.  But adding context to that would be better, yes.

They watch the best players? How do they know who they are before they rate everyone???  That's nonsensical.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2021, 02:37:26 PM »
It's not silly to cite what actually happens on the field, lol.  But adding context to that would be better, yes.

They watch the best players? How do they know who they are before they rate everyone???  That's nonsensical.
Gee I dunno, how does one decide who the best players and best teams are before the season starts? In college football? Perish the thought.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2021, 05:20:29 PM »
Maybe PFF should wait until Oct 1st then?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MrNubbz

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #96 on: December 12, 2021, 06:11:29 PM »
Can't have to sell  something for preseason profit margin
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #97 on: December 12, 2021, 07:09:43 PM »
May be an image of 6 people and text that says 'MAXPREPS TRIED TO TELL US (AGAIN)... 2012 MAXPREPS PLAYER OF THE YEAR DERRICK HENRY 2015 HEISMAN TROPHY WINNER 2013 & 2014 MAXPREPS PLAYER OF THE YEAR ALLEN KYLER MURRAY 2018 HEISMAN TROPHY WINNER 2019 MAXPREPS PLAYER OF THE YEAR BRYCE YOUNG 2021 HEISMAN TROPHY WINNER OCBS SPORTS MAXPREPS'
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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