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Topic: 2021 Awards Season

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bayareabadger

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #112 on: December 13, 2021, 11:14:00 PM »
It's all narrative.  The voting contingent is bloated.  It's largely a giant whatever

One of these guys was a Heisman finalist, the other, playing the same position, in the same conference, in one less game, was 2nd team All-Big Ten

78 tackles, 15.5 TFL, 10 sacks, 1 FF, 2 FR, 1 TD
54 tackles, 14.5 TFL, 12 sacks, 2 FF, 1 FR
Wanted to come back to this because it's kinda a marvelous fib. It's an alluring fib, because it's so easy. Of course this one guys if overrated and hypocrisy abounds. 

But it's pretty half true. 

The only mistake ELA had was that it's actually in the same number of games. The MSU kid (the one on top) put up those numbers in 13 games, including the bowl. Now, that might not be significant, except he went ham in that bowl. At the time they actually vote on awards (voters lack time machines), that fella had these stats.

69 tackles, 14 TFL, 8.5 sacks, 1 FF, 2 FR, 1 TD

Solid numbers, certianly worth 2nd team All-Big Ten. BUT, this fella was in fact first-team All-Big Ten.

The media voted him onto that team. Alas, it was the coaches who did not. Who knows who actually fills those ballots? But in the end, the media "narrative" was that he was a first-teamer. 

Now, then comes another layer. For better or worse, there's a sliding scale when it comes to team success/unit success when it comes to things like the Heisman. If you're not on a great team or unit, you have to be stud muffin productive. This MSU fella was not, but what of his team.

Well, it was 6-6. The defense was quite good, 13th in SP+, but worse in more standard metrics: 37th in scoring D,23rd in yards per play allowed. They also had some boom and bust to them. Five conference opponents hit 31 or more points. 

Anyway, a good lesson in "Narrative." When people want to believe, they'll find the thing that makes them comfortable. (This isn't to tag ELA, an upstanding citizen here, but to poke at how it got traction in the first place)

ELA

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #113 on: December 13, 2021, 11:30:59 PM »
You are overthinking it.  He plays for a helmet school, that didn't have a standout offensive player.  Same reason Peppers went in 2016 or Te'o in 2012.   All three are good players, but hardly the type to get that rare defensive player invite.  Two of the three didn't win the Nagurski or Bednarik Awards.   The problem is the voting contingent for the Heisman is bloated with people who have no business participating

bayareabadger

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #114 on: December 14, 2021, 12:01:14 AM »
You are overthinking it.  He plays for a helmet school, that didn't have a standout offensive player.  Same reason Peppers went in 2016 or Te'o in 2012.  All three are good players, but hardly the type to get that rare defensive player invite.  Two of the three didn't win the Nagurski or Bednarik Awards.  The problem is the voting contingent for the Heisman is bloated with people who have no business participating

I'm thinking that the invocation of Kenny Willekes by anyone was deeply silly. 

I mean, he's a game-wrecker for a playoff team, that, you are correct, did not have a standout offensive guy. And he got a regional boost because for whatever reason, there's a tradition of regionalism in all that. Kid had a very, very good season. 

The Nagurski/Bednarik thing is interesting. Hutchinson won neither because of a guy who probably should've been there and one who likely would have been but for the last game. Te'o, who was probably worse than Hutchinson won both. Peppers ... I dunno what to do with that one. We were low on Midwestern candidates, I suppose. 

ELA

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #115 on: December 14, 2021, 12:08:08 AM »
Hes the best defensive player in the Big Ten, easily.  But that you need to do a deep dive to distinguish between his year and a guy who was split 1st/2nd team All-Big Ten, and him getting recognition at a level that happens less than once a year for defensive players, and you suggest it's anything other than narrative is deeply silly.

Hell, two of the guys up there weren't even the best player on their own team.  It's fine, but it is what it is.  The end result of a bloated voting base that catches a few highlights

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #116 on: December 14, 2021, 07:08:56 AM »
Derrick Thomas had 27 sacks and 39 tackles for loss in 1988, but Aidan Hutchinson had the best season ever.

Idiot.
You throw Derrick Thomas out there like you have never even heard of Lawrence Taylor. Amateur hour.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #117 on: December 14, 2021, 07:26:02 AM »
Hes the best defensive player in the Big Ten, easily.  But that you need to do a deep dive to distinguish between his year and a guy who was split 1st/2nd team All-Big Ten, and him getting recognition at a level that happens less than once a year for defensive players, and you suggest it's anything other than narrative is deeply silly.

Hell, two of the guys up there weren't even the best player on their own team.  It's fine, but it is what it is.  The end result of a bloated voting base that catches a few highlights
He's getting smoke as being the top pick in the draft, certainly will be picked very high. He's not just some dude who made a few plays then got swept up in the narrative. There isn't a defensive player in the country more important to their team's success this year. 

MrNubbz

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #118 on: December 14, 2021, 08:11:56 AM »
This year perhaps but not ever
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

ELA

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #119 on: December 14, 2021, 08:28:25 AM »
You're acting like I didn't put him in my top 3

FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #120 on: December 14, 2021, 09:09:28 AM »
Chase Young was much more disruptive, imo
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #121 on: December 14, 2021, 08:51:27 PM »
Chase Young was much more disruptive, imo
Yeah, but he's not a white legacy.

The sports media LOVE them a legacy.  They're obsessed with it.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #122 on: December 14, 2021, 08:59:19 PM »
Chase Young was much more disruptive, imo
disagree. I think Chase Young was obviously phenomenal, but I don't think he was any more or less the player Hutchinson is. Mich more disruptive is a stretch. Both are super high level players. Speaking strictly OSU guys- never even felt like Young was the best- I know he had better raw stats- but to me Nick Bosa was the best DE that I've seen at Ohio State- he was better than his older brother and better than Young- and Hutch reminds me a ton of Nick.


Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #123 on: December 14, 2021, 09:00:40 PM »
Yeah, but he's not a white legacy.

The sports media LOVE them a legacy.  They're obsessed with it. 
his race had nothing to do with him being a Heisman trophy finalist, so knock it off please. Kid was the highest rated player in CFB according to PFF and he's going to be the #1 pick in the upcoming NFL Draft. he is simply put an awesome football player.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #124 on: December 14, 2021, 09:04:09 PM »
He's getting smoke as being the top pick in the draft, certainly will be picked very high. He's not just some dude who made a few plays then got swept up in the narrative. There isn't a defensive player in the country more important to their team's success this year.
Ohhh

Tell us how you quantified that one!
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

FearlessF

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #125 on: December 14, 2021, 09:05:05 PM »
eyeball test
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

 

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