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Topic: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #868 on: February 09, 2022, 10:50:38 AM »
Ohio State's home game against Nebraska (postponed on January 22 due to COVID issues) has been rescheduled for Tuesday, March 1.  

As an Ohio State fan I see this as a good news/bad news situation.  It is good because it is Nebraska at home which should be an easy win but bad because the Buckeyes will now be playing Izzo's Spartans in March on a short turnaround.  The Buckeyes schedule in that stretch is now:

  • Thursday, 2/24 at Illinois
  • Sunday, 2/27 at Maryland
  • Tuesday, 3/1 vs Nebraska
  • Thursday, 3/3 vs Michigan State
Full Disclosure, MSU's schedule is actually even tougher at that time because they also have a game rescheduled due to COVID on the first of March:
  • Tuesday, 2/22 at Iowa
  • Saturday, 2/26 vs Purdue
  • Tuesday, 3/1 at Michigan
  • Thursday, 3/3 at Ohio State

As I see it the Spartans have tougher games but more favorable spacing while the Buckeyes have easier games but less favorable spacing.  Ie, that three games in five days stretch will be tough for the Buckeyes even though Maryland isn't great and Nebraska is terrible.  

I frankly think that the MSU/tOSU game on March 3 will be some pretty bad BB as both teams figure to be exhausted.  


betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #869 on: February 09, 2022, 10:57:24 AM »
Hardy har har.


Recruiting rankings are hit or miss, especially when you have coaches who not only can identify talent but also develop it.

Zach Edey, Destroyer of Worlds, was ranked 440th nationally. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #870 on: February 09, 2022, 11:11:44 AM »
As I see it these next two games for Ohio State are critical to the outcome of the season for the Buckeyes because of the remaining games these are probably two of the most likely to go either way.  

With UW's upset of MSU in E. Lansing and tOSU/UNL being rescheduled the tier system now projects tOSU as the fourth place team in the conference but they project to finish just 1/2 game out of first (three way tie between PU, IL, and UW at 15-5) and just 1/2 game ahead of fifth (MSU at 14-6).  Thus:

  • One extra win gets the Buckeyes a projected outright B1G Championship and 
  • One extra loss means the Buckeyes have to play on Thursday in the BTT as the #5 seed.  
Things project to be VERY close at the top with five teams all within one game of each other for the top five spots.  

Ohio State's nine (or 10) remaining games ranked from most likely win to most likely loss, IMHO:
  • vs Nebraska on 3/1
  • vs Minnesota on 2/15
  • vs Indiana on 2/19
  • vs Iowa (if rescheduled)
  • vs Michigan on 3/6
  • at Rutgers tonight
  • at Maryland on 2/27
  • vs Michigan State on 3/3
  • at Michigan on 2/12
  • at Illinois on 2/24


*Michigan:  I really don't know what to do with games against the Wolverines.  By talent even the home game could easily be a loss but by performance even the road game should be a win.  Who knows.  

Rutgers at home is hard to get a read on.  There is the good:
  • Beat Purdue
  • Beat Michigan State
  • Beat Michigan
  • Blew out Nebraska
And there is the bad:
  • Barely beat Iowa
  • Lost to Maryland
Ohio State on the road is similarly up and down.  There is the good:
  • Beat Penn State
  • Beat Minnesota
  • Almost beat Purdue
And there is the bad:
  • Needed OT to beat Nebraska
  • Blown out by Indiana
  • Lost to Wisconsin (not very competitive)

So yeah, I see this as a game that could go either way.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #871 on: February 09, 2022, 11:24:08 AM »
The tOSU@RU and PU@M games tonight and tomorrow will shape the rest of the league race.  

The standings are a bit convoluted due to the unequal number of games being worse than usual due to COVID postponements but as I see it we have:

  • The three loss teams:  PU 10-3, UW 10-3, IL 10-3, tOSU 7-3
  • The four loss team:  MSU 8-4
  • The five loss teams:  RU 7-5, M 6-5
  • The six loss teams:  IU 7-6, IA 5-6

If the Buckeyes and Boilermakers win this week that all but eliminates the Scarlet Knights, Wolverines, Hoosiers, and Hawkeyes from any chance at a top-4 seed (and Thursday bye).  At that point RU and M would have two more losses than #5 MSU and three more losses than the league leaders and that is too big of a hill to climb with only 6-9 games left.  Conversely, if the Scarlet Knights and Wolverines both win then we'd have three four-loss teams (MSU, PU, tOSU) and two five-loss teams (RU, M) all in contention with each other.  


bayareabadger

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #872 on: February 09, 2022, 11:26:21 AM »
Recruiting rankings are hit or miss, especially when you have coaches who not only can identify talent but also develop it.

Zach Edey, Destroyer of Worlds, was ranked 440th nationally.
Y’all want Joey Hauser? He was highly rated …

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #873 on: February 09, 2022, 11:38:02 AM »
We are getting really close to being able to talk about Locks but probably not quite yet.  

As in the past, I use a VERY literal definition of "Lock" which I know that @ELA concurs with but others may disagree.  As I see it, and I'm pretty sure that ELA agrees, a "Lock" is a team that could:

  • Lose every remaining scheduled game, and
  • Get the worst possible opponent in their BTT opener, and
  • Lose their BTT opener, and 
  • Face a relatively strong bubble, and
  • Still would make the Tournament.  

Thus, IMHO, only Purdue at this point is possibly a lock and even for them it is debatable.  They are 10-3/21-3 and their seven remaining scheduled games are:
  • at Michigan
  • vs Maryland
  • at Northwestern
  • vs Rutgers
  • at Michigan State
  • at Wisconsin
  • vs Indiana
If they lost all of those that would include some pretty bad losses and they'd be 10-10/21-10 heading into the BTT.  That record would likely get them somewhere around the 6-10 seed in the BTT.  The worst-case-scenario there would be to get the #6 seed then have Nebraska upset the #11 in the 11/14 game on Wednesday leading to Purdue facing Nebraska and losing to them in their BTT opener.  21-11 isn't bad but finishing on an eight-game losing streak including losses to Maryland, Northwestern, Rutgers, and Nebraska certainly wouldn't be ideal.  I'd put this worst-case-scenario for Purdue at somewhere around a 50/50 shot at the Tournament so right now I don't think they are a Lock just yet.  

That said, they are REALLY close and a win in Ann Arbor tomorrow night probably locks it up.  If not, then backing that up with a home win over Maryland this weekend absolutely seals it.  At that point they'd be 12-3/23-3 and their worst-case-scenario would be 12-8/23-9.  

Wisconsin (19-4 overall) along with Illinois and Michigan State (both 17-6 overall) aren't far behind.  


bayareabadger

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #874 on: February 09, 2022, 11:55:57 AM »
UW could bottom out at 19-13. With their set of wins, that’s a lock.

(I guess they could get burned by bad losses, just because they still have two gimmies, but still, you gotta be something weird schedule-wise to be out with 19 wins as a Big Ten team)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 12:04:19 PM by bayareabadger »

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #875 on: February 09, 2022, 12:30:17 PM »
UW could bottom out at 19-13. With their set of wins, that’s a lock.

(I guess they could get burned by bad losses, just because they still have two gimmies, but still, you gotta be something weird schedule-wise to be out with 19 wins as a Big Ten team)
I get 19-12.  They are currently 19-4 so the worst-case-scenario is:
  • Lose at home to RU on 2/12, 19-5
  • Lose at IU on 2/15, 19-6
  • Lose at home to M on 2/20, 19-7
  • Lose at MN on 2/23, 19-8
  • Lose at RU on 2/26, 19-9
  • Lose at home to PU on 3/1, 19-10
  • Lose at home to UNL on 3/6, 19-11
  • Lose BTT opener, 19-12

You are *probably* right and it is all academic anyway because Wisconsin isn't realistically going to lose ALL the rest of their games but if they did those would include some BAD losses and finishing on an eight-game losing streak obviously isn't good.  


847badgerfan

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #876 on: February 09, 2022, 12:38:57 PM »
UW could bottom out at 19-13. With their set of wins, that’s a lock.

(I guess they could get burned by bad losses, just because they still have two gimmies, but still, you gotta be something weird schedule-wise to be out with 19 wins as a Big Ten team)
Remaining schedule:

Sat: RU
2/15: @IU
2/20: UM
2/23: @MN
2/26: @RU
3/1: PU
3/6: UNL

Any road win is questionable. They should handle RU, UM and UNL at home. They already beat PU on the road. If they finish 4-3, they are in great shape.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

ELA

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #877 on: February 09, 2022, 01:42:21 PM »
I think the basketball recruiting rankings, particularly for PGs and bigs are meh now.  The bestp layer typically find their way to a prep school, so the ones that don't, don't really get scouted playing HS ball, just AAU, and nothing about that highlights how PG and big play will translate.

Looking at the MSU 2018 class (which would be seniors now)...

The highest rated player was #66 Marcus Bingham Jr.  He is finally showing flashes this year, but MSU took him over Treveon Williams, because Williams was fat, and Bingham could shoot 3s, and projected better.  Nope

Next was Foster Loyer at #96.  He is the all time leading scorer in Michigan HS history, MSU offered him as a sophomore, and he never grew.  His dad is 6'7", his brother is 6'7", he was a 6'0" 15 year old...who never grew another inch.  He transferred to Davidson

Gabe Brown was #101, and only because of a late boost.  When he committed, I think MSU was his only high major offer, and now he's the best player on the team, maybe?

Then you drop down to Aaron Henry at #140.  MSU only offered him after missing out on a bunch of higher priority guys, and Gary Harris staked his reputation on him.  He almost went pro after 2 years, came back for his junior year, and basically single-handidly dragged MSU into the tourney.

Thomas Kithier was #161, but that was another weird one.  When the initial rankings came out, he was the top player in the state.  But he missed his whole junior year with an injury, and then transferred his senior year, but was declared ineligible because it was deemed the transfer was for athletic purposes.  So he fell, because he didn't play for 2 years, but he's another guy who stopped growing.  He transferred to Valparaiso.

So you start with the guys who were the top 2 players in the state at the time they committed (Loyer and Kithier), and wound up not even being Big Ten caliber players.  Then you take the guy who winds up the #1 player in the state (Bingham), based solely on projections, and the guy MSU passed on (Williams), absolutely blew past him.  The two best players in that class were outside the top 100.

Actually, MSU has taken 4 players outside the top 100 since 2016.  And I'd say the hit rate has been pretty damn good.  Julian Marble looks like his rating suggested, but then Xavier Tillman, Gabe Brown, Aaron Henry.  The weird part is that Brown and Henry played positions that are usually a little more translatable, so they shouldn't have slipped through the cracks.

ELA

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #878 on: February 09, 2022, 03:05:25 PM »

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #879 on: February 09, 2022, 03:06:28 PM »
Nebraska's home game tonight against Minnesota is probably their best remaining chance to get a win in league play this year which matters a little because no B1G team has gone winless in league play in over 20 years:

  • 3-16 UNL finished last in 2021
  • 2-18 UNL finished last in 2020
  • 4-16 NU finished last in 2019 (UNL was second-to-last at 6-14)
  • 3-15 RU finished last in 2018 (UNL was 13-6 tied for 4th/5th)
  • 3-15 RU finished last in 2017 (UNL was 6-12 and tied for 12th/13th)
  • 1-17 RU finished last in 2016 (UNL was 6-12 and 12th)
  • 2-16 RU finished last in 2015 (UNL was 5-13 and 12th)
  • 5-13 PU finished last in 2014 (UNL was 11-7 and 6th of 12)
  • 2-16 PSU finished last in 2013 (UNL was 5-13 and 10th of 12)
  • 4-14 UNL finished tied for 11th/12th of 11 in 2012
  • 3-15 IU finished last in 2011 (pre-Nebraska)
  • 3-15 PSU finished last in 2010
  • 1-17 IU finished last in 2009
  • 1-17 NU finished last in 2008
  • 2-14 PSU/NU tied for 10th/11th in 2007
  • 3-13 PU finished last in 2006
  • 1-15 PSU finished last in 2005
  • 3-13 MN and PSU tied for 10th/11th in 2004
  • 2-14 PSU finished last in 2003
  • 3-13 PSU finished last in 2002
  • 3-13 NU finished last in 2001
  • 0-16 Northwestern finished winless in 2000


That is so long ago that Nebraska Maryland, and Rutgers weren't in the B1G yet, the B1G was still the Big11Ten, and Penn State was still a very new member.  In 10 years in the league Nebraska has finished last three times (looking like 4/11 after this year) and they have finished with a winning record twice.  Ie, they've finished dead last twice as often as they've had a winning record.  

Abba

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #880 on: February 09, 2022, 09:07:53 PM »
The "Go to bed angry" Bucks returned tonight.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2021-2022 B1G Basketball thread
« Reply #881 on: February 09, 2022, 09:14:36 PM »
The "Go to bed angry" Bucks returned tonight.
Oh so close.

 

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