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Topic: Misfits Thread

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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7014 on: August 27, 2020, 08:30:10 AM »
Violent crime rates are down significantly since 1993 or so, significantly, maybe due to Biden's crime bill.

So, I'd opine perhaps history shows it has worked out that way.

My dad, incidentally, worked with prison populations to set up educational programs for them.  I was shocked at about age 10 or so to learn recidivism rates were over 70%.  He believed that very few prisoners really took advantage of the opportunities provided to develop a skill or get a GED.

His job also changed his views on race significantly to the point I avoided the topic like the plague around him.
Crime has dropped across much of the world since 1993, sort of an interesting phenomenon with no clear answer.  My personal opinion is it's due to the internet, but don't go asking for tons of statistical support on that.

I also sympathize with your dad, and with cops.  The history of segregation and poverty and criminal justice laws has created a system where black people are mostly poor, mostly in one location, and heavily policed.  It doesn't create a good environment for success.  

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7015 on: August 27, 2020, 08:35:09 AM »
I'm pretty sure sfbadger is familiar with firearms and their potencies, FYI.

I think it also true that "back in the day", LEOs carried .38 Specials or even .32 caliber pistols.  I was alive when the SP went to the .357 as they needed better penetration capability.  Then they went to 9 mm semi-auto, which is an upgrade in magazine size.  Some/many have gone to 10 mm.  So, I think the standard firepower of the police side arm has gone up over time.

And obviously rate of fire of common guns has gone WAY up since 1787.

The big shift more recently has been from revolvers to mag fed semiauto handguns.  You go from 5 or 6 rounds on hand to 15 or 17 or more, and a pretty quick recharge.

The same shift happened when we went from the 1903 Springfield rifle to the M1 Garand, more rate of fire and more magazine capacity.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7016 on: August 27, 2020, 08:36:32 AM »
Not sure I do. By definition, if you are ok with whatever the current rate of holding people at gunpoint, then you've accepted it. A lot of people just accept it - we don't have protests about it. Common is a subjective measure, though it certainly seems silly to call it rare. In any event, the number of things that our government does that are violent in the name of protecting our safety is extremely frequent.

Objectively, our incarceration rates are historically high. We lock a pretty large amount of purple in cages. Killing dogs, full body cavity searches, holding people at gunpoint - it's a lot.

The protests only come when the government kills or maims someone, and even then people want to both sides the issue.
I know I am late the discussion, but you are saying that the number of people being held at gunpoint by police is increasing. That may or may not be true, but just for the sake of argument, let's accept it as fact. 

So the question then becomes, why? Are police more trigger happy today than they were previously? Or perhaps, the rate of violence perpetrated by those being held at gunpoint has increased significantly during this time. Perhaps if the police were not in constant danger from those people that they are frequently coming into contact with, they may not be so quick to pull a gun to protect themselves. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7017 on: August 27, 2020, 08:37:09 AM »
The drop in violent crime correlates with an increase in firearms in the US.

Correlation, not causation.  As sfbadger notes, the percentage of HHs with a firearms continues to slide, perhaps with a bump up of late.

When your victims MAY be armed, you might be more cautious about robbing them on the street.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7018 on: August 27, 2020, 08:41:24 AM »
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2019/12/06/rasheen-mcclain-funeral-detroit-police/4356181002/

Black man shot and killed in police involved incident, no protests or riots happened as a result.


MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7019 on: August 27, 2020, 08:49:00 AM »
The drop in violent crime correlates with an increase in firearms in the US.

Correlation, not causation.  As sfbadger notes, the percentage of HHs with a firearms continues to slide, perhaps with a bump up of late.

When your victims MAY be armed, you might be more cautious about robbing them on the street.
Maybe, though crime in Europe has dropped faster than in the U.S. 

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7020 on: August 27, 2020, 08:58:11 AM »
I'm pretty sure sfbadger is familiar with firearms and their potencies, FYI.

I think it also true that "back in the day", LEOs carried .38 Specials or even .32 caliber pistols.  I was alive when the SP went to the .357 as they needed better penetration capability.  Then they went to 9 mm semi-auto, which is an upgrade in magazine size.  Some/many have gone to 10 mm.  So, I think the standard firepower of the police side arm has gone up over time.

And obviously rate of fire of common guns has gone WAY up since 1787.

The big shift more recently has been from revolvers to mag fed semiauto handguns.  You go from 5 or 6 rounds on hand to 15 or 17 or more, and a pretty quick recharge.

The same shift happened when we went from the 1903 Springfield rifle to the M1 Garand, more rate of fire and more magazine capacity.
I was responding to his specific claim that guns are more powerful now and addressing the notion that the AR-15 is one of those. By industry standards, the AR-15 is one of the less powerful weapons compared to other popular calibers. 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7021 on: August 27, 2020, 09:07:46 AM »
Kenosha Sheriff detailing the American Way of criminal justice


https://twitter.com/7im/status/1298770531278131201?s=20

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looters assault an older business owner trying to defend his business in Kenosha, Wisconsin on August 24, 2020. <a href="https://t.co/LdlLnOpvfJ">pic.twitter.com/LdlLnOpvfJ</a></p>&mdash; After Action Report (@after_theaction) <a href="
https://twitter.com/after_theaction/status/1298210964018429952?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7022 on: August 27, 2020, 09:12:13 AM »
I was responding to his specific claim that guns are more powerful now and addressing the notion that the AR-15 is one of those. By industry standards, the AR-15 is one of the less powerful weapons compared to other popular calibers.
I didn't read his claim that way.  And I know he is familiar with weapons.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7023 on: August 27, 2020, 09:13:41 AM »
It is interesting, to me, how some judge an individual based on things like history and the color of his skin and perhaps his position in law enforcement.

That would be classic prejudice and bias, forming an opinion about an individual based on  the general.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7024 on: August 27, 2020, 09:15:00 AM »
It is interesting, to me, how some judge an individual based on things like history and the color of his skin and perhaps his position in law enforcement.

That would be classic prejudice and bias, forming an opinion about an individual based on  the general.
What's interesting about it? To me, it's the most banal thing in the world.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7025 on: August 27, 2020, 09:15:42 AM »
Kenosha Sheriff detailing the American Way of criminal justice


https://twitter.com/7im/status/1298770531278131201?s=20

I used to question this approach.  He is starting to make sense to me with each passing day.

i won’t embed/attach it, but just watched ANOTHER Twitter video of an old man, business owner, tryin to protect his business in Kenosha last night as the rioters were trying to set it on fire.  They broke his jaw in 2 places with a concrete filled bottle.  71 years old.  

not sure how or why you. Ontinue to defend this violence, but that is what you are doing.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7026 on: August 27, 2020, 09:18:31 AM »
This is from wiki:

Germany[edit]
According to German police statistics on crime, cases overall peaked in 1993. Since then, they dropped by 20% from 8,336 per 100,000 inhabitants to 6,710 in 2018. (All rates for Germany mentioned here include attempts.) Criminal offenses against life declined by 40% from 6.3 in 1993 to 3.7 in 2012 but rose again to 3.9 in 2018. Theft dropped by 54% from 5,126 cases in 1993 to 2,338 in 2018. The statistical group violent crime did not peak in 1993 but in 2007 with 264.7 cases per 100,000. Until 2018 they dropped by 15% to 223.9.[15]
United States[edit]
In the United States, for example, violent crime rates have fallen by over 50% in many major U.S. cities since these rates peaked in the early 1990s, often referred to as the "Great Crime Decline".[16][17] In New York City, these rates had dropped by 75% from the early 1990s to 2010.[18] In the United States, a second decline in the crime rate was also observed, with homicide rates declining first from 1994 to 2002, and then again from 2007 to 2011.[19] The crime rate in Los Angeles decreased from 1993 onward, including e.g. a decrease in the crime rate of 10% during the first six months of 1998.[20]



MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7027 on: August 27, 2020, 09:18:40 AM »
I used to question this approach.  He is starting to make sense to me with each passing day.

i won’t embed/attach it, but just watched ANOTHER Twitter video of an old man, business owner, tryin to protect his business in Kenosha last night as the rioters were trying to set it on fire.  They broke his jaw in 2 places with a concrete filled bottle.  71 years old. 

not sure how or why you. Ontinue to defend this violence, but that is what you are doing. 
?? What he advocates is by definition violence, and you are saying it's sounding good to you. So how am I the one defending violence?

 

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