2020 NFL Draft/Offseason thread

[Cincydawg]

Yeah, sporadic success, meaning inconsistent performance for whatever reason, though Detroit has been fairly consistent.

Even Manziel couldn't make Cleveland good.

Living in Cincy I would in the past pay a bit of attention to their team and they seemed always to draft some high draft pick QB who flopped.  It was predictable.  Ryan Leaf I think one was.  I started to think perhaps the "issue" was not with the QB.  And yes, they have a major front office problem too.

[ELA]

Detroit and Atlanta have had apparently good QBs and rather sporadic successes.

The problem with both is that they lined up with the old salary structure where the top picks sucked up your whole cap.

Under the current slot model the 2010 Lions would have had Calvin Johnson, Matthew Stafford and Ndamukong Suh all on rookie contracts.  As far as top picks go, that's not too shabby, and you would have them for cheap.  You would have Johnson at roughly $9.3 million; Stafford at $8.0 million; and Suh at $6.4 million.  That's $23.7 million of a $198.2 million cap (11.96%) for 2020.

Instead, they were paying $11.1 for Calvin; $13.0 for Stafford; and $3.2 for Suh (with a HEAVILY backloaded contract, that saw him make 17% of the team's entire cap by himself by the end of it).  Roughly 23% of the team's cap, with the knowledge that you had to account for the back end of Suh's ROOKIE contract paying him roughly 1/6 of your cap by himself, so you couldn't really sign guys to fit around him on anything more than 1 or 2 year deals.

[Cincydawg]

I'm sure it's true that "my plan" is probably not viable.  If it was, teams would be doing it, and I presume they know more about it than I.

[Mdot21]

Has there ever been a bad team (for years) that drafted a Number One QB and turned into a very good team year after year?

I know the Falcons drafted Matt Ryan, a pretty good QB, and had some good years (and bad).  They also got a few other pieces like Julio.

If you have a bad team, consistently, for a decade, where do you start?  Joe Burrow?  Or three linemen?

Colts were terrible for years, had the #1 pick. They took Peyton Manning. They were 3-13 in Peyton's rookie year, and then the very next year in 1999 they went 13-3 and went on a run for a decade with Manning where they won 10+ games every year and went to a ton of playoff games and a couple of Super Bowls.

[bayareabadger]

It was a brilliant move because they traded a guy who really didn't have the talent to play at a high level in the NFL in Walsh for a package of high picks. They fleeced the Saints with that Walsh trade. That trade and the Herschel Walker trade where they fleeced the Vikings set the stage for Dallas to become arguably the best dynasty the NFL has ever seen. I still think those 90's Cowboys teams with Jimmy Johnson were the best football teams top to bottom that I have ever seen. Oh and the Charles Haley trade with the 49ers.

Drafting Aikman and making 3 trades turned the Cowboys into a dynasty.

I think you'd more call it a brilliant outcome than a brilliant move. They still traded a first rounder (one that turned out to be the No. 1 overall pick) for a quarterback who was not good so they could have a battle for the starting spot. Now to their credit, they found someone very stupid to overpay for him, but it's at least worth noting the process.

[Cincydawg]

The Colts were pretty average pre-Manning.  

[Mdot21]

Yeah, sporadic success, meaning inconsistent performance for whatever reason, though Detroit has been fairly consistent.

Even Manziel couldn't make Cleveland good.

Living in Cincy I would in the past pay a bit of attention to their team and they seemed always to draft some high draft pick QB who flopped.  It was predictable.  Ryan Leaf I think one was.  I started to think perhaps the "issue" was not with the QB.  And yes, they have a major front office problem too.

Detroit has been fairly consistently bad.


Manziel couldn't make anyone good. Manziel sucked. It didn't matter where he was drafted, he would've never worked in the NFL. He was an undersized, gimmicky college player with a ton of off-field red flags.

Ryan Leaf was drafted by the Chargers in '98, the very next pick after Peyton Manning.

[Cincydawg]

Huh, I thought everyone agreed that Manziel was a generational talent sure thing in the NFL, better than Joe Burrow by leaps and bounds.

[bayareabadger]

Colts were terrible for years, had the #1 pick. They took Peyton Manning. They were 3-13 in Peyton's rookie year, and then the very next year in 1999 they went 13-3 and went on a run for a decade with Manning where they won 10+ games every year and went to a ton of playoff games and a couple of Super Bowls.

The year before going 3-13 to get the No. 1 pick, the Colts made the playoffs.

The year before that, they were tied for the fourth-best record in the AFC (not a great record) and had a lead in the AFC title game with two minutes left. They were like a play (either a dropped hail mary or dropped interception) from going to the Super Bowl. 

So, no, not really terrible for years. Pretty not good for the years before almost making the Super Bowl, but that's because they drafted a can't-miss QB No. 1 and it didn't go well. 

[MrNubbz]

Huh, I thought everyone agreed that Manziel was a generational talent sure thing in the NFL, better than Joe Burrow by leaps and bounds.

I'm assuming that was in jest.Because Browns Fans sounded like a cat getting pulled into a fan belt when he was picked

[Mdot21]

Huh, I thought everyone agreed that Manziel was a generational talent sure thing in the NFL, better than Joe Burrow by leaps and bounds.

I don't know of anyone who thought of him like that at the time. The Browns were largely made fun of for drafting him in the 1st round.

[Mdot21]

My mock draft (with trades)

FIRST ROUND

1	Bengals	QB Joe Burrow, LSU
2	Redskins	DE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE
3	Lions	CB JEFF OKUDAH, OHIO STATE
4	Giants	T TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA
5	Dolphins	QB Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama
6	Chargers	OLB Isaiah Simmons, Clemson
7	Panthers	DT Derrick Brown, Auburn
8	Cardinals	T Jedrick Wills Jr., Alabama
9	Jaguars	WR Jerry Jeudy, Alabama
10	Browns	T Andrew Thomas, Georgia
11	Jets	WR CeeDee Lamb, Oklahoma
12	Raiders	WR Henry Ruggs III, Alabama
13	49ers (SF)	DT Javon Kinlaw, South Carolina
14	Buccaneers	T Mekhi Becton, Louisville
15	Broncos	CB C.J. Henderson, Florida
16	Falcons	OLB K'Lavon Chaisson, LSU
17	Cowboys	S Xavier McKinney, Alabama
18	Dolphins (PIT)	ILB Patrick Queen, LSU
19	Chargers (LV) (CHI)	QB Justin Herbert, Oregon
20	Jaguars (LAR)	S Grant Delpit, LSU
21	Eagles	ILB Kenneth Murray, Oklahoma
22	Vikings (BUF)	WR Justin Jefferson, LSU
23	Patriots	QB Jordan Love, Utah State
24	Saints	CB Trevon Diggs, Alabama
25	Vikings	DT Ross Blacklock, TCU
26	Dolphins (HOU)	RB D'Andre Swift, Georgia
27	Seahawks	DE YETUR GROSS-MATOS, PENN STATE
28	Ravens	OLB ZACK BAUN, WISCONSIN
29	Titans	DE A.J. EPENESA, IOWA
30	Packers	WR Tee Higgins, Clemson
31	49ers	CB Kristian Fulton, LSU
32	Chiefs	CB A.J. Terrell, Clemson

Trades:
Raiders trade #19 pick to Chargers for 2nd Round (#37), 3rd Round (#71) and 4th Round (#112) picks

I'm sure Okudah will be a very good pro, but no thanks. If they don't draft Tua, I'm going to be pissed.

[Mdot21]

The year before going 3-13 to get the No. 1 pick, the Colts made the playoffs.

The year before that, they were tied for the fourth-best record in the AFC (not a great record) and had a lead in the AFC title game with two minutes left. They were like a play (either a dropped hail mary or dropped interception) from going to the Super Bowl.

So, no, not really terrible for years. Pretty not good for the years before almost making the Super Bowl, but that's because they drafted a can't-miss QB No. 1 and it didn't go well.

Colts record in the 90's.

1990: 7-9
1991: 1-15
1992: 9-7
1993: 4-12
1994: 8-8
1995: 9-7
1996: 9-7
1997: 3-13

Yeah, I'd say they were pretty much dogshit in the 90s. In those 8 seasons, they never once had double digit wins, only had winning seasons 3 times, only made the playoffs twice, and never once won their division. And all 3 of their "winning" seasons were 9-7. Pretty lame.

In fact the ONLY time the Colts won double digit games in a season or won their division in that entire decade of the 1990's was in 1999, Peyton Manning's second year in which the Colts went 13-3 and won the AFC East.

[MrNubbz]

ELA or CD what do you know about T Andrew Thomas, Georgia?Evidently he's going to the Browns - don't tell him though he might join the Peace Corp and head off into the Congo