2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread

[OrangeAfroMan]

 Yet 90 percent of teams don’t give up like I’m told SEC teams do in bigger bowls after losses. Weird.

Shut up.  It's not about conference affiliation, it's about losing all of your highest season goals at the end of the regular season.  Don't be a douche.

[OrangeAfroMan]

You're the one omitting so much,Gonzaga began making the tournament back in the 1990's.I know - they were my go to underdog when I was wagering.So I looked them up and this got spit out - Gonzaga's NCAA Tournament streak began in 1999 with Elite Eight appearance. This year's NCAA Tournament appearance marks 22 straight for the Zags. We can only hope GU will make history by taking home a national championship title.The Bulldogs entered the tournament in 2021 as the 20th undefeated team ever.

.It would have been the 23rd straight but last yrs was obviously canceled.You make the Elite 8,you've gained respect.You make the tournament 22 straight,you've continued to earn it.UNLV,Georgetown,Villanova,Louisville,Marquette all say hello

Uhh, okay.
My estimate pulled from the top of my head was 7 years off.  
My bad.

[OrangeAfroMan]

In a system I advocate for, you can whip up any craziness you want, but it won't change anything.  Conference championships SHOULD be a big deal and amazing and great and wonderful.
But the moment we had the SEC split into divisions, that started going out the window.  Once conferences got so bloated that you didn't come close to playing everyone else, it went nearly totally out the window.
Now what matters?  What do people remember?  For the big-boy programs, it's did you make the playoff?  Alabama happens to win the SEC a lot, but they'll take that playoff spot over another SEC crown every day of the week.  So would I.  So should you.  
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I'm a college football fanatic, and I couldn't tell you if MSU won the B1G any of those years they were so good with Dantonio.  I think they must have when they made the playoff, but I wouldn't be money on it.  I don't know which years Wisconsin won the B1G, if OSU was above them and made the playoff.  Hell, they may not have ever happened!  
And think about the PAC-12.  I know Oregon won it in when they spanked FSU....in the playoff.  But how many of us could list the last 5 PAC-12 champs?  I couldn't, because they don't make the playoff (UW did that one year, I know).  
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Conference champs was a big deal until it wasn't.
Yes, much of the time, the best team in the country doesn't win their conference.  
To pretend otherwise is sticking your head in the sand.

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'm a college football fanatic, and I couldn't tell you if MSU won the B1G any of those years they were so good with Dantonio.  I think they must have when they made the playoff, but I wouldn't be money on it.  I don't know which years Wisconsin won the B1G, if OSU was above them and made the playoff.  Hell, they may not have ever happened! 
And think about the PAC-12.  I know Oregon won it in when they spanked FSU....in the playoff.  But how many of us could list the last 5 PAC-12 champs?  I couldn't, because they don't make the playoff (UW did that one year, I know). 

Okay... So let me see if I have this straight...

Your goal is to protect the sanctity of the regular season, the most meaningful regular season of any sport. You desperately want to make sure that nothing about the regular season--defined as every game mattering--is diluted.

And yet at the same time you--as a college football fanatic--can't be bothered to really remember anything about a team's regular season performance in any given year unless that team makes the playoff? And even then, you don't recall whether a team was the conference champion--only that they made the playoff, so they probably were? 

[OrangeAfroMan]

Yes, that's what having a playoff has done, in my experience.

[betarhoalphadelta]

But what I've repeatedly warned against in this topic is allowing in teams we KNOW aren't that team with the best combination of gameplay and resume.  Advocates for an expanded playoff want a larger group of teams to "have a chance," but their chance was the regular season.  They don't need a 2nd chance, they've been given 12 (in a normal year). 

Now I say all of this WHILE insulting the pollsters, who nearly always rank teams by number of losses and helmet recognition.  Some have gotten better in the past decade, but it's still an idiotic herd of sheep for the most part.  A committee is better than 80 head coaches that don't watch other teams play and hand the task off to an intern.  I don't know why it's so hard to get a group of people that can put a loss into context in degrees of good/bad rather than treating it like a bullet wound that kills you.

Yet... I can count 2 times that the committee has put in teams that we know aren't the best. 

• 2014 FSU - Everyone knew that FSU team was flawed, hence why they were 13-0 and seeded behind two 12-1 teams. They'd squeaked by a bunch of weak teams in a middling conference by the skin of their teeth. But there is NO way they'd leave out a 13-0 team from a major conference, especially after what they'd done the year before, so FSU had to be put in even though their flaws were obvious. 
• 2015 MSU - We all knew it based on their roster. They simply never had the talent level of a CFP contender. Like FSU, they squeaked by a bunch of teams, including an Iowa team in the CCG that got completely smoked in the Rose Bowl... They got in because they managed to beat OSU by 3 points in the regular season and have the H2H tiebreaker, even though OSU spent the year crushing everyone else on their list while MSU squeaked by.  

Personally I could probably add 2018 and 2020 Notre Dame to that list, because they're a has-been. A paper tiger who trades on their name and their ancient history. But they get the benefit of the doubt, because they're Notre Dame, so they're in that elite group due to their helmet despite getting curb-stomped every time they step up to the big boy table. Nobody was going to keep an undefeated ND out in 2018, just like FSU in 2014, even if we knew they didn't belong there. 

[bayareabadger]

Shut up.  It's not about conference affiliation, it's about losing all of your highest season goals at the end of the regular season.  Don't be a douche.

I don’t think I will shut up. I feel like I’ve seen UW lose a lot of Big Ten title games, at least one with a playoff spot on the line.

The damndest thing, they seemed to bring it.

But setting that aside, what happens if your highest goals are done early on. What if you have high goals and two losses, how soon is the art of explaining away motivations going to grow and expand? Eventually we’d hear the Dan Mullen speech in early November. “It was title or bust for this team, so with no title, we’re playing to get ready for next year.”

[bayareabadger]

Yes, that's what having a playoff has done, in my experience.

Most of his best years, including the majority of his conference titles and lone title game loss came pre-playoff. 

This playoff forgetfulness is a powerful thing. 

[MaximumSam]

To me, the lack of certainty on how to get into the postseason is the biggest problem. Regular season games are important, sort of. Giving the committee leave to weigh recruiting rankings as important as winning games gives the whole enterprise a bit of an off flavor.

[OrangeAfroMan]

Yet... I can count 2 times that the committee has put in teams that we know aren't the best.

• 2014 FSU - Everyone knew that FSU team was flawed, hence why they were 13-0 and seeded behind two 12-1 teams. They'd squeaked by a bunch of weak teams in a middling conference by the skin of their teeth. But there is NO way they'd leave out a 13-0 team from a major conference, especially after what they'd done the year before, so FSU had to be put in even though their flaws were obvious.
• 2015 MSU - We all knew it based on their roster. They simply never had the talent level of a CFP contender. Like FSU, they squeaked by a bunch of teams, including an Iowa team in the CCG that got completely smoked in the Rose Bowl... They got in because they managed to beat OSU by 3 points in the regular season and have the H2H tiebreaker, even though OSU spent the year crushing everyone else on their list while MSU squeaked by. 

Personally I could probably add 2018 and 2020 Notre Dame to that list, because they're a has-been. A paper tiger who trades on their name and their ancient history. But they get the benefit of the doubt, because they're Notre Dame, so they're in that elite group due to their helmet despite getting curb-stomped every time they step up to the big boy table. Nobody was going to keep an undefeated ND out in 2018, just like FSU in 2014, even if we knew they didn't belong there.

Now all you have to do is propose replacements for these teams and support their inclusion over these that you've listed.

[MaximumSam]

Baylor with a first half bludgeoning of Houston

[OrangeAfroMan]

When did Baylor get good at basketball?  Hopefully their players treat women better than the football team did.  

[bayareabadger]

When did Baylor get good at basketball?  Hopefully their players treat women better than the football team did. 

They went to Elite 8s in 2010 and 2012, and have been to two more Sweet 16s since/

[bayareabadger]

Baylor with a first half bludgeoning of Houston

I don't know where Gonzaga is in relation to Baylor, but damn Baylor is good.

The fact Wisconsin was in striking distance for much of the first half and parts of the second is in retrospect remarkable.