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Topic: 2019-2020 NFL Thread

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MrNubbz

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2019, 11:11:53 AM »
Interesting point about BOB,Franklin garners recruits no doubt but O'Brien prolly could take them to the next level
“I Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.”  -  W.C.Fields

bwarbiany

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2019, 11:21:43 AM »
Or you could say the system is so well ingrained that it covers deficiencies to the point that his assistants don't necessarily learn when they make mistakes, because they aren't obvious; or they falsely learn that, while that maybe didn't go exactly according to plan, it still worked.

But overall, I agree, to get to the point of being an NFL assistant you have to have at least a certain coaching aptitude, that you'd figure at some point.  I think Bill O'Brien would have Penn State in better shape than they currently are had he remained in Happy Valley.
But unless he hires inherently flawed people, it's wrong to say hiring a BB assistant will "never work". It might just mean that something about BB's system is less likely to train people to excel at the next level, but not that it will "never" happen. 

To say it will never happen would only be fair if BB actively selects coaches who don't have aptitude. Which goes against pretty much every hiring strategy I've ever heard of, where you hire the best people you can get your hands on because they make your team stronger. 

However, malignant narcissists who get into positions of power often do try to surround themselves with non-threatening subordinates, and I was making a joke that this might describe BB. In truth, I don't believe that, because usually in competitive environments those teams end up suffering, whereas the Patriots are succeeding.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2019, 11:46:33 AM »
It’ll never work, because the team hiring the BB assistant doesn’t get to bring Bill & Tom with him to the new team.
The odds of a new coach panning out never literally zero-point-zero percent. So, given infinite tries, it has to work out eventually. But I will grant you that the odds seem so low that it's not worth trying.

ELA

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2019, 12:31:41 PM »
However, malignant narcissists who get into positions of power often do try to surround themselves with non-threatening subordinates, and I was making a joke that this might describe BB. In truth, I don't believe that, because usually in competitive environments those teams end up suffering, whereas the Patriots are succeeding.
Yeah, you see that more in failed totalitarian states than with NFL teams.

Mdot21

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2019, 10:16:26 AM »
But unless he hires inherently flawed people, it's wrong to say hiring a BB assistant will "never work". It might just mean that something about BB's system is less likely to train people to excel at the next level, but not that it will "never" happen.

To say it will never happen would only be fair if BB actively selects coaches who don't have aptitude. Which goes against pretty much every hiring strategy I've ever heard of, where you hire the best people you can get your hands on because they make your team stronger.

However, malignant narcissists who get into positions of power often do try to surround themselves with non-threatening subordinates, and I was making a joke that this might describe BB. In truth, I don't believe that, because usually in competitive environments those teams end up suffering, whereas the Patriots are succeeding.
BB was a failed head coach himself before coming to the Patriots. His Cleveland career was a disaster. And his first 18 games in New England with Drew Bledsoe as his starting QB he wasn't looking much better- 5-13 and on the hotseat. Bledsoe takes a killshot to the ribs from Moe Lewis and the rest is history as they say.

BB is a huge part of that teams success. Obviously. But the NFL game is all about the QB. If you don't have one- forget it. You aren't winning jack. And BB has had the very fortunate luxury of parterning with inarguably the greatest QB of all-time for the last 20 years or something like that.

I bet a lot of those former NE assistants would've looked a lot better as head coaches had they been able to bring Brady with them.

Mdot21

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2019, 10:20:06 AM »
New Orleans Saints WR Michael Thomas signs a 5 year extension that will make him the highest paid WR in the NFL. Kinda shocking to me. I think he's a hell of a receiver, but I wouldn't pay him more than AJ Green or Julio Jones or DeAndre Hopkins if I was an Owner/GM. I'd tell him you ain't as good as them- so you don't deserve that kind of money.

ELA

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2019, 10:24:22 AM »
New Orleans Saints WR Michael Thomas signs a 5 year extension that will make him the highest paid WR in the NFL. Kinda shocking to me. I think he's a hell of a receiver, but I wouldn't pay him more than AJ Green or Julio Jones or DeAndre Hopkins if I was an Owner/GM. I'd tell him you ain't as good as them- so you don't deserve that kind of money.
Eh, I'd rather have Thomas than Green, with Green's recent injury troubles.  Missed 6 games in 2016, 7 in 2018, and is now out 2 months to begin 2019.

MrNubbz

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2019, 10:25:24 AM »
BB is a huge part of that teams success. Obviously. But the NFL game is all about the QB. If you don't have one- forget it. You aren't winning jack. And BB has had the very fortunate luxury of parterning with inarguably the greatest QB of all-time for the last 20 years or something like that.
Mostly that's true but a few years back Denver's defense won the SB.Manning was hardly serviceable.He looked like he was throwing a shot put - it really was that evident.And to make matters worse Peyton right after the game turns into a Budweiser shill.
“I Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.”  -  W.C.Fields

MrNubbz

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2019, 10:29:48 AM »
New Orleans Saints WR Michael Thomas signs a 5 year extension that will make him the highest paid WR in the NFL. Kinda shocking to me. I think he's a hell of a receiver, but I wouldn't pay him more than AJ Green or Julio Jones or DeAndre Hopkins if I was an Owner/GM. I'd tell him you ain't as good as them- so you don't deserve that kind of money.
2018 Thomas had the most receptions - 125,also had the highest catch % @ 85.So he's definitely in that discussion
“I Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.”  -  W.C.Fields

Mdot21

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2019, 10:34:30 AM »
Mostly that's true but a few years back Denver's defense won the SB.Manning was hardly serviceable.He looked like he was throwing a shot put - it really was that evident.And to make matters worse Peyton right after the game turns into a Budweiser shill.
True. But defenses like that are rare now a days. That Denver defense was All-Time great that season.

Demarcus Ware is a shoe-in 1st ballot HOF'er. He was on his last legs at that point in time, but he was still a productive, disruptive edge rusher who had 9 or 10 sacks that season. Their other edge rusher? Fricken' Von Miller smack-dab in his prime who had I want to say had 14 or 15 sacks that season and absolutely dominated the enitre playoffs. Miller is a shoe-in 1st ballot HOF'er himself. It's rare for one team to have two pass rushers that good on both sides.

Then to top it off, the rest of that defense was really good. You had Malik Jackson and Derek Wolfe at DT playing good football and collapsing the pocket on the interior- and then two all-time greats on the outside rushing the passer. And then you had two Pro Bowl CB's still in their primes on the outside in Chris Harris Jr. and Aqib Talib locking receivers down in man coverage.

Defenses like that are incredibly rare these days in the NFL because of salary cap constraints. Seattle had a killer defense for a few years but they didn't have quite the pass rush the 2015 Broncos had.

Mdot21

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2019, 10:38:42 AM »
2018 Thomas had the most receptions - 125,also had the highest catch % @ 85.So he's definitely in that discussion
he's really good, obviously, not knocking him. He also only averages 11.8 YPC for his career and doesn't get in the end-zone all that much. Those other WR's I named average around 15 YPC. And none of them play with QB's remotely as good as Drew Brees. Poor AJ Green has been stuck playing with a shitty ginger on a terrible team and Hopkins has been in QB hell in Houston until Deshaun Watson came in and had a nice flash of brilliance as a rookie before getting hurt. Matt Ryan is OK. I guess. Never been a fan. Julio is the best in the game imo. He's like a mini-Calvin Johnson. Mini-Megatron.

bwarbiany

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2019, 10:50:53 AM »
I don't think Thomas is exactly the same physical specimen as some of the others, but he catches everything. Put the ball near him and he'll get it. Through contact, poor placement, whatever. He catches it.

Arguably the worst thing for a receiver is dropping catchall balls. Thomas doesn't, and has a bigger catch radius than most other receivers to boot. 

MrNubbz

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2019, 11:57:02 AM »
Correct Julio Jones is exciting as hell but has a reception % of 66.5 .You better have a high avg per catch if you're missing some strikes
“I Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite and furthermore I always carry a small snake.”  -  W.C.Fields

Mdot21

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Re: 2019-2020 NFL Thread
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2019, 08:18:07 PM »
Correct Julio Jones is exciting as hell but has a reception % of 66.5 .You better have a high avg per catch if you're missing some strikes
that catch Julio made on the sideline in the Super Bowl should've won the Falcons that game. Put them in FG range and a FG there probably ices the game. Still one of the most ridiculous catches I've ever seen. If only Matt Ryan didn't take a sack and push the Falcons out of FG range on the very next play......

Michael Thomas is a hell of a WR, I wasn't knocking him. Julio is an all-time great though imo. He's right below Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson imo. I'd put Julio in the same class as TO.

 

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