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Topic: Top 150 HCs - SEC only

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OrangeAfroMan

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Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« on: December 11, 2019, 03:53:05 AM »
HCs counted by predominant school - SEC HCs:
1. Bear Bryant - Alabama
2. Nick Saban - Alabama
3. Bobby Dodd - GA Tech
4. Vince Dooley - Georgia
5. Steve Spurrier - Florida
6. Robert Neyland - Tennessee
7. Johnny Vaught - Ole Miss
8. Urban Meyer - Florida
9. Johnny Majors - Tennessee
10. Shug Jordan - Auburn
11. Frank Thomas - Alabama
12. Phil Fulmer - Tennessee
13. Charlie McClendon - LSU
14. Dan McGugin - Vanderbilt (sort of pre-SEC, but let's represent them)
15. Wally Butts - Georgia
16. Jackie Sherrill - Miss State
17. Pat Dye - Auburn
18. Gene Stallings - Alabama
19. Mike Donahue - Auburn (pre-SEC)
20. Mark Richt - Georgia
21. Les Miles - LSU


Personally, I think Dooley is too high.  He was a HC for a long time, but only had 3-4 great seasons.  Neyland is underrated.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2019, 07:09:36 AM »
What do you think of as a great season?

Top five finish in the polls?  Top ten?

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2019, 07:10:13 AM »
My guess is that list corresponds fairly closely to "number of wins", not really coaching aptitude, though the two would be somewhat correlated.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2019, 08:54:01 AM »
What do you think of as a great season?

Top five finish in the polls?  Top ten?
With Dooley, isn't it basically 2 measures:  with Herschel and without Herschel?  Anyone could have just run the ball with Walker 35 times per game.  That's what he did, and it worked.  But what were Dooley's 3 best seasons w/o HW?  The year immediately after he left early, sure, but what else?  

I just think his peaks had a lot of average in between - more so than other elite HCs.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2019, 10:20:27 AM »
1966. 1968. 1971. 1976 ... Pretty good years.  1983 was without HW.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/vince-dooley-1.html

Dooley once said his 1969 team was loaded but suffered key injuries and only finished 5-5-1, after starting the year 5-1.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 03:10:39 PM by Cincydawg »

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 03:41:16 PM »
The main thing that helps Dooley's perception is the state of the program he inherited.  Of course, 20 years later that was not a factor at all, but perception by then was that he was a very good HC (among fans anyway).  Richt had better success outside the one NC, but was viewed as something of a failure because of not meeting expectations.  Smart MIGHT get that same label, already has with some.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 02:26:59 AM »
Am I wrong in thinking that Neyland was almost a 1b to Bryant's 1a status as all-time SEC HCs?  I know he mentored him a bit or inspired him or whatever, and maybe the student surpassed the teacher, but how would Neyland be 6th?  Sure, Saban may have passed them both, but I don't understand having 5 guys ahead of Neyland.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2019, 07:34:27 AM »
Neyland suffers, I think, because of the time factor.  Many don't view football of 1938 as being "the same" as it is today, so when Michigan beats OSU 13 times out of 14 in 1901, OSu fans view it askance, it doesn't count.

It's perception and opinion anyway, your's is as or more valid than "theirs".  

I think we should "celebrate" the great coaches with things other than attempted rankings, they can each be exceptional in their own right and time, without trying to compare some 1938 coach with a 2010 coach with an almost entirely different "playing field".

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2019, 08:53:54 AM »
I also think "the best coach" could be some dude who went to BF State and did a superb job with what he had, but never got a bite at the Bigger Apples.


Nashville4UGA

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2019, 09:41:48 AM »
What would some of the earlier coaches like Bear Bryant do in the modern era with an 85 scholarship limit? 

I mean, Bryant back in the day was stockpiling players and keeping them on the bench to keep them away from the competition. He could have run his 4th team out there and still competed at the same level.  Not true in today's landscape. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2019, 11:02:16 AM »
Dooley's teams won 10 games in four seasons without HW and 9 games four other times, out of 22 years (wo #34).  Five major bowl games played, 2-3 record.

That isn't earth shattering of course, but it's pretty solid.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2019, 05:00:46 PM »
It sure is. 
I was looking at Dooley and Spurrier...I can't believe Spurrier coached 25+ years and Dooley 25.  His career was chopped up starting at Duke, then his time at Florida, and then he spent nearly as long at South Carolina. 

They've got about the same number of years, about the same overall win%, and 1 NC each.  However, I'd put Spurrier ahead, because he won at 2 places that never win - and his time there brought down his overall win%.  Imagine Spurrier's record if he spent 25 years in Gainesville. 
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Cincydawg

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2019, 05:25:59 PM »
Spurrier is the best "game day coach" I've ever seen.  Recruiting was not his strength, though his presence attracted recruits.  He did more with less than anyone I have seen.  When at UF, he did more with more.

Dooley was a solid coach in my view who took over a moribund program and brought it back to significance, even if we ignore 1980-1982.

eltigrerex

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Re: Top 150 HCs - SEC only
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2019, 06:11:15 PM »
I think most all of the correct names are there. But I'm sure we'd all argue over the ordering (so many ways to measure greatness and so many things to consider like, resources v results, do we include what they did pre/outside the SEC? etc.). 

No way Dooley is anything other than one of the best, but I wouldn't put him top 5. I do agree that Neyland might be the most underrated of the bunch. 

1. Bryant
2. Spurrier
3. Saban
4. Neyland
5. Dodd
6. Vaught
7. Jordan
8. Thomas
9. Dooley
10. Meyer

And regardless of the time frame or qualifications, I have to give John Heisman an honorable mention. 

.02

 

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