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Topic: SEC Champion 2025

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MikeDeTiger

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #140 on: November 25, 2025, 03:33:41 PM »
Whatever the real story, it's quite something that anyone would've even thought about burning the churches.  
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CWSooner

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #141 on: November 25, 2025, 03:42:32 PM »
Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 25, 2025, 01:19:36 PM
Yes, I knew that Sherman was the first president at LSU (not "LSU" back then).  I have not ever read that letter.  Rather prescient, and well-worded.  He appears to have been a decent writer.

Sherman and Grant were both good writers. Clear communicators.

Quote
I'm not nearly enough of a historian know the ins and outs, but the Mississippi River is such an important trade commodity that it seems the South should have expected some advantage as far as trade with Europe and anyone else, contrary to Sherman's words here.  Its ports, presumably, would've been under control of the South.

But maybe he meant something else, or the situation was, most likely, much more intricate than I understand. 

Union forces captured New Orleans on 1 May 1862. That blocked most sea traffic into and out of the Mississippi River. The Confederacy wasted 1861 as far as exporting its most valuable commodity--cotton. Jefferson Davis announced a boycott of cotton to Europe in an attempt to force Britain and France to recognize the CSA and to provide military aid. It didn't work, because 1860 had seen a bumper cotton crop, so the British cotton mills had a lot of raw cotton left over. That was typical of the CSA's maladroit diplomacy.
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Cincydawg

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #142 on: November 25, 2025, 03:46:08 PM »
Fires of course tend to spread.  Atlanta had a pretty bad fire in 1917 that spread quite bit.  We live in the northwest portion of said map.  The railroad is now the Beltline.





100 Years After the Fire | Atlanta History Center

And there wasn't just one "fire" when Sherman had the city burned, the Confederates started one before they left which was localized to the downtown area.  Sherman ordered brick buildings to be demolished before he left.  Apparently his troops took to burning indiscriminantly against his orders.  A lot of the city did burn at that time, it wasn't of course that large a place, about 10,000 residents. so maybe 2500 residences or so.

But I digress.

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Cincydawg

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #143 on: November 25, 2025, 03:46:53 PM »
Quote from: CWSooner on November 25, 2025, 03:42:32 PM
Sherman and Grant were both good writers. Clear communicators.

Union forces captured New Orleans on 1 May 1862. That blocked most sea traffic into and out of the Mississippi River. The Confederacy wasted 1861 as far as exporting its most valuable commodity--cotton. Jefferson Davis announced a boycott of cotton to Europe in an attempt to force Britain and France to recognize the CSA and to provide military aid. It didn't work, because 1860 had seen a bumper cotton crop, so the British cotton mills had a lot of raw cotton left over. That was typical of the CSA's maladroit diplomacy.

Britain also found Egypt could grow cotton pretty well ....

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CWSooner

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #144 on: November 25, 2025, 03:49:40 PM »
Quote from: MikeDeTiger on November 25, 2025, 01:22:25 PM
From what little I learned about him in school, he seems to be regarded as not nearly the military mind of Robert E. Lee--who may have been the only reason the under-supplied South had any success at all.
Lee was best at the tactical and operational levels of war. When it came to strategy, he wasn't so great. His focus on the Richmond-Washington area left everything west of the Smokies under-resourced.
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Cincydawg

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #145 on: November 25, 2025, 04:00:24 PM »
Quote from: CWSooner on November 25, 2025, 03:49:40 PM
Lee was best at the tactical and operational levels of war. When it came to strategy, he wasn't so great. His focus on the Richmond-Washington area left everything west of the Smokies under-resourced.
He did send Longstreet's corps to Georgia in 1863 when Virginia was in a lull.  There was talk of sending him to Vicksburg before Gettysburg, but Lee of course figured a victory in the north would seal it.  Lee really benefitted from having indecisive Northern commanders like Hooker, who figured the battle was won, no need to do anything else.

I tend to think "historical opinions" of military leaders gets overblown, usually, one way or the other, then over corrected, the over over corrected.

I've been reading more about Hannibal and Alexander and Caesar and Martel, and a few others.  They are either reported as being incredibly fantastic or really not all that.
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CWSooner

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #146 on: November 25, 2025, 07:41:54 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2025, 04:00:24 PM
He did send Longstreet's corps to Georgia in 1863 when Virginia was in a lull.  There was talk of sending him to Vicksburg before Gettysburg, but Lee of course figured a victory in the north would seal it.  Lee really benefitted from having indecisive Northern commanders like Hooker, who figured the battle was won, no need to do anything else.

I tend to think "historical opinions" of military leaders gets overblown, usually, one way or the other, then over corrected, the over over corrected.

I've been reading more about Hannibal and Alexander and Caesar and Martel, and a few others.  They are either reported as being incredibly fantastic or really not all that.

Shelby Foote--who was a writer, not a historian, contrary to what Civil War "buffs" think--wrote that Battle of Gettysburg was "the price the Confederacy payed for having R.E. Lee." I'm not a big fan of Foote, but I think he got that one right.

Lee's rationales for the campaign that culminated at Gettysburg were really rationalizations, IMO. Defeating the Union forces that were in and/or threatening northern Virginia was too important to him, and by Jun 1863, there was no one in authority who had the stones to overrule him. Lee's offensives into the North were beyond what the Confederacy could afford, and his two big ones were disasters. Antietam was close enough to a Union victory that Lincoln could issue the Emancipation Proclamation, ending the prospect that Britain and France might intervene and opening an artery into the Confederacy's domestic labor force. Gettysburg was a terrible bloodletting from which the ANVA never fully recovered.

Re your final comment, I think that writers of military history tend to be either advocates or debunkers. What's the motivation for writing balanced treatments of mediocrities?
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CWSooner

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #147 on: November 25, 2025, 07:43:26 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on November 25, 2025, 03:46:53 PM
Britain also found Egypt could grow cotton pretty well ....
Yep! And India too, I think.
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utee94

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #148 on: Today at 08:37:08 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on November 24, 2025, 08:34:07 PM
I don't get the A&M-Texas line.  The Aggies are legit and Texas is....not great.
Quote from: Gigem on November 24, 2025, 08:53:15 PM
Honestly I think we’re very evenly matched. Games at Austin, HFA.
Yup, this.  Texas has been a talented but erratic team playing below its capability all season, and A&M has been a very good but not great team playing a little over its head all season.  I predicted a Texas win and the game went about as I expected-- a tough and gritty matchup with two evenly matched teams going at it for 60 minutes.

Ironically, if the Aggies hadn't insisted on playing Texas at home in our first season in the SEC last year, and thus had us at home this year, I have no doubt that the outcome of this game would have been the opposite.  Texas has been terrible on the road all season long and A&M would have punished us for it.

Anyway, the Ags will get to "laugh all the way to the bank" as they go to their first playoff while Texas sits at home.  Congrats the Texas A&M on an excellent season and I wish them good luck from here on out.  I really want to see how they stack up against the rest of the elite in the post-season.
« Last Edit: Today at 09:24:14 AM by utee94 »
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Gigem

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #149 on: Today at 12:09:30 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on Today at 08:37:08 AM
Ironically, if the Aggies hadn't insisted on playing Texas at home in our first season in the SEC last year, and thus had us at home this year, I have no doubt that the outcome of this game would have been the opposite.  Texas has been terrible on the road all season long and A&M would have punished us for it.

Anyway, the Ags will get to "laugh all the way to the bank" as they go to their first playoff while Texas sits at home.  Congrats the Texas A&M on an excellent season and I wish them good luck from here on out.  I really want to see how they stack up against the rest of the elite in the post-season.
I had this same thought. They pushed for that when Jimbo was still our coach. I have no idea why, it seems misguided at best. But, in both games the SECCCG was on the line. I don’t recall if this was a real thing or if the SEC just randomly decided it. It was reported by MBG (message board geniuses). 

I still think Texas has a good shot for the CFP, but I don’t know exactly how it all works. Weren’t there several 9-3 teams that got in last year? 
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utee94

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #150 on: Today at 01:22:45 PM »
Quote from: Gigem on Today at 12:09:30 PM
I had this same thought. They pushed for that when Jimbo was still our coach. I have no idea why, it seems misguided at best. But, in both games the SECCCG was on the line. I don’t recall if this was a real thing or if the SEC just randomly decided it. It was reported by MBG (message board geniuses).

I still think Texas has a good shot for the CFP, but I don’t know exactly how it all works. Weren’t there several 9-3 teams that got in last year?

Maybe?  I really don't remember how it went down, either.  I'd be thrilled to see Texas in the CFP, obviously, if it's even a remote possibility.

I did see you comment on another thread that it would send a bad message for punishing Texas for scheduling Ohio State and then losing to them, and I think that idea has some merit.  It really will be interesting to see what happens.

But if Texas doesn't get into the playoff I won't grouse about it.  Your record is your record, ultimately.  This year's Texas team is good but not elite, but there's a lot to build on for next year.
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Gigem

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #151 on: Today at 01:44:48 PM »
Yeah, it always kind of makes me laugh about some CBB team or pro team with a so so record making a big deal about not getting in or trying to get into the NCAA tournament or the playoffs. I mean truly when you watch a team that is clearly not a good team why do you care so much?  Houston Texans are a great example. They’re hovering around .500 right now, maybe 6-5.  A lot of their wins are close ones, some of their losses are not. It’s not like they had a couple of losses earlier in the season and have improved, on either side of the ball. Nobody believes they can do much in the playoffs yet it still gets a lot of hype. 

Same thing with one of our basketball teams a few years ago. They were a very hot and cold team, won a bunch of big games but lost some head scratchers. Lot of griping about getting left out but I actually thought it was better because they ended up playing for the title in the NIT. 
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Gigem

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #152 on: Today at 01:47:16 PM »
I actually think Texas could be a decent playoff team, they’re clearly a better team at the end of the year.  Arch has come a long way and is proven to be a quite capable QB. The way he handled the 2nd half offense last night you simply have to be impressed by him. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SEC Champion 2025
« Reply #153 on: Today at 08:20:19 PM »
A&M vs Texas is why I don't bet on 20 year-olds playing football.

Arch impressed me...with his speed.  Funny how he is fast as shit and has a janky throwing motion, but no one is suggesting a position change.  No WR-playing-QB talk.  I guess it's his last name.

No team with 3 losses can complain about being left out.  Don't lose 3 times.  Duh.

Last year Alabama, Ole Miss, and South Carolina were 3-loss teams who were left out behind 2-loss SMU.
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