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Topic: SEC Front Porch

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Mr Tulip

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #392 on: December 19, 2024, 11:44:57 AM »
Everything has to evolve.
When the Big 8 took on the SWC cast-offs, the beast in the room was the Cornhusker Big Red Machine. If you wanted to make a run at winning the conference, you had to be ready to stop a bunch of corn fed rhinos from stampeding down the field. That meant big DTs and, crucially, hulking LBs. 4-4 defenses were common. You had to recruit those big bodies.
When Leach became the OC at OU, he went the opposite direction. He sent as many receivers as he could screaming downfield. Ideally, you'd defend that with 5 or 6 DBs running mixed coverages. If a Big 12 defense were lucky, they maybe had 6 DBs in the entire rotation - including heavy safeties and raw underclassmen. They still were stocked with those massive LBs. OU put 70 on most teams, and stopped because they had some sense of mercy.

All that to say that the SEC's early 2000's defenses were there to stop the (primarily Bama) running game. LSU's was feared in that regard. When TAMU brought the spread style, complete with Saban angering HUNH, no one was ready for it. An offense that was good-but-not-great in the Big 12 excelled in the SEC. Nowadays, outside of the weirdos like Army, offenses are remarkably similar (or have the potential to be).

LSU's 2003 defense would still be a beast in today's game, though.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #393 on: December 19, 2024, 12:51:52 PM »
Not to be argumentative, but at least one team was ready for A&M.  The charts of Manziel's production game by game during his tenure are fodder for LSU fans.  It's high and steady, with massive drops for his two games against LSU.  That offense did precisely squat against LSU in two tries, and frankly, 2012 was not one of LSU's greatest defenses, and 2013 was flat out bad by its standards at that time.

I'd actually argue LSU in particular was geared to handle A&M.  Chavis built a specific machine for those offenses, which had in fact entered the SEC.  But he also implemented a brutal platoon system, if needed, in the summer of 2011 leading up to the opener against Oregon, the kings of the HUNH.  Why Alabama had so much problems with A&M early on, I don't know.  They were built rather similarly to us, I thought, usually with better linebackers and (at that time) not quite as good DLs. 

I'll never forget the game against Oregon in Jerry-world.  Oregon's vaunted pace which ran a play every 15 seconds or something like that......they lined up to run a play and at times were visibly stunned to see LSU's entire defense set already and waiting for them.  At one point our DE Sam Montgomery was in his stance beating his hand on the ground as if to say "Come on!  Hurry up!  We ain't got all day!  Get lined up and run your play, Oregon!"  What Chavis had done to prepare for them was to coordinate with the offensive coaches and employ two completely separate offenses who would run a play, one after another.  All one unit had to do after running a play was get off the field as quick as possible, and the other offense was waiting to run on and snap the ball, having had time to get a play in while the other squad ran its play.  It got down to where LSU's defense was forced to defend a play within something like 6 seconds of the last play being dead.  By the time the Oregon game came around, the HUNH was like a Jedi mind trick that didn't work on them. 

What amazes me, and escapes our current teams, is when I watch Texas, UGA, or some of Alabama's recent great defenses.  Even against RPO teams, everywhere the ball goes, 2 or 3 defenders are already flying in.  It's like they know what's coming before it happens.  Talent is obviously part of it, but what I'm talking about goes beyond talent.  This is something I never saw from even our best defenses.  Those teams operated on very specific assignments and counted on havoc on the line and the back end being better than your guy.  What I'm talking about, like when Texas and UGA play each other this year, or watching Alabama for several years, is it feeling like there's 4 defenders no matter where you go with the ball.  I'm amazed, enthralled, and enchanted by how it happens, and keeps happening.  They know beyond a shadow of doubt what their formation is taking away, what the QB is going to do in response to that, and it's like they're all going to where they know the ball is going to go as soon as its snapped. 

Well.....and tackling.  That's something those teams are doing which we used to, but have abandoned in recent years.  But still.  Note the utter hell they create for an offense as it never looks like there's any open space, anywhere on camera.  It's like there's 20 guys on defense. 

Which is, like, 2 less than Tennessee lined up with against us that one time.  

Gigem

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #394 on: December 20, 2024, 12:05:22 AM »
LSU's 2003 defense would still be a beast in today's game, though.
Eh, not really sure that’s accurate. We had a new head coach, with new coordinators, and a few new skill players ( Mike Evans at WR). About the only part we kept was a mature OL, but Sherman ran a pro-style offense.  

Gigem

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #395 on: December 20, 2024, 12:07:16 AM »
That 2012 LSU loss cost us a shot at the SEC championship game. As I recall, we did miss an easy field goal or two that would’ve made a difference. But you’re correct, Johnny Football was much ineffective in that game. 

MikeDeTiger

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #396 on: December 20, 2024, 12:08:59 PM »
Les Miles had a special teams hex.  So many teams bizarrely missed FGs against us.  He also had a weird mojo where he knew exactly when the opposing team fell asleep and would be susceptible to fake punts or FGs.  The punters, kickers, returners and coverage were all bangers in those days too.

Man, I miss that.  

CatsbyAZ

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #397 on: December 23, 2024, 10:53:40 AM »
What kind of Christmas music do you find yourself listening to this time of year?

I listen to most anything Christmas-y this time of year 🎅

from the elegant and timeless hymns - O Holy Night; Little Town of Bethlehem 👼

to Mannheim Steamrollers' heavenly instrumentals - Silent Night, Carol of the Bells 🔔

to the mid-century classics - White Christmas, Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas

to the worst of the holiday novelty songs - Mommy Kissing Santa, Santa Baby, Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer 🎄

which I mostly can't stand, but everything is taking the good with the bad 🎩

Drew4UTk

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #398 on: December 23, 2024, 01:32:38 PM »
well, sir- here is a carol for you: 

We got our effin ass kicked fallahlalalah-luh-lalala
Tennessee ain't nuthin special fallahlalalah-luh-lalala
---Arrogance will get you nowhere unless you can back it up
We'll be back and do this over fallahlalalah-luh-la  la  la

longhorn320

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #399 on: December 23, 2024, 02:31:47 PM »
well, sir- here is a carol for you:

We got our effin ass kicked fallahlalalah-luh-lalala
Tennessee ain't nuthin special fallahlalalah-luh-lalala
---Arrogance will get you nowhere unless you can back it up
We'll be back and do this over fallahlalalah-luh-la  la  la

be careful karma is listening
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Drew4UTk

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #400 on: December 23, 2024, 04:38:22 PM »
be careful karma is listening
That may be the problem... karma WAS listening.  

That is as embarrassing an arse whoopin as I can ever recall- at least happening when I truly thought TN was a good team.  

97 Nebraska comes to mind... 96 Florida... maaaaaybe 2001 LSU, but they were good with that backup QB coming in nobody was prepared for... Memphis 95 I think it was... arky 91... these are the games that I KNEW Tennessee was the better team, and I still think they were better than Memphis and just laid an egg, but, those are the games that come to mind where I truly believed UT was better... meaning, even on a bad day they should win... 

Add tOSU to that, now.  I REALLY thought UT was going to roll them.  They were beat in every aspect a team can get beat.  

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #401 on: December 27, 2024, 09:15:42 PM »
Save this, for whenever you're daisy-orange ass is feeling a bit uppity:

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #402 on: December 27, 2024, 09:22:23 PM »
And on 2012 A&M, you want to see a halftime adjustment?  Look at Manziel's first SEC game - tore us up in the first half.  But Muschamp had the DEs stop going for the sack and just corral him in...and shut A&M out in the 2nd half.
23 offensive plays for 47 total yards in 2nd half.
They simply stopped trying to sack him.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

CatsbyAZ

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #403 on: January 01, 2025, 10:19:53 AM »
What in the world Alabama…Kalen DeBoer…Jalen Milroe?

An embarrassing, uninspired showing by Alabama losing to Michigan in their Bowl yesterday.

Milroe was awful through the first quarter, fumbling TWICE, tossing an INT, and committing a FOURTH turnover if you count the Sack he took on 4th Down. Milroe settled down as the game progressed, but only marginally, and not enough to finish drives that weren’t bailed out by the heroics of other players.

With a month to do so, how in the world did DeBoer – a supposed QB whispering master – not have Milroe more prepared? Was his success at Fresno St and Washington that got him hired by Alabama lucked into by quarterbacks Jake Haener and Michael Penix? Now starting games in the NFL?

It’s worth asking because Milroe, who’s capable enough to productively work with, was wastefully handled this year. Throughout Alabama’s four losses, Milroe was fooled by defenses, couldn’t advance beyond his first progression (K Williams or Germie Bernard), was a turnover machine, and killed drives with inaccurate passing.

As for yesterday’s Bowl loss, one of the peripheral story lines was whether Milroe, waiting to announce after the Bowl (pending), would return as a Senior next season. Either way, why didn’t Kalen DeBoer (and OC Nick Sheridan) move on to sophomore backup (and presumed future) Ty Simpson, and ready him for next season? Milroe is a lost cause. Makes me wonder if Ty Simpson is also not developing? And whether DeBoer should even have his reputation as a developer of QBs?


Cincydawg

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #404 on: January 02, 2025, 08:58:20 AM »
My guess is a certain kind of QB might prosper under one QB "whisperer" but flag under another equally good QBW.  It may relate to style.

It has been asked of course why Carson Beck took a big step back this season, his second, and I think much of that is called McConkey and Bowers.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: SEC Front Porch
« Reply #405 on: January 03, 2025, 01:55:08 PM »
Agree about Beck/Bowers/McConkey. 

Re: Deboar and Milroe:  I don't know much about Haener, but Penix may very well be a QB that might exaggerate the perceived capability of the guy who gets to call plays for him.  On the flip side, Milroe doesn't have a lot to recommend him, that I've seen, other than his legs.  He's a worse version of Jalen Hurts, imo, and I've been pretty critical of Hurts. 

Might take DeBoar another season or two to get the team remade in his image, but I still think he'll get Alabama back at the top.  

 

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