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Topic: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?

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DunkingDan

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Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« on: February 11, 2019, 07:55:41 PM »
The God of the Bible is anathema to secular leftists. As evidence of that, we see a troubling rise in anti-Christian and anti-Semitic bigotry from the political left, both at home and abroad. To push the faithful farther out of the mainstream, it is now chic to target Christians and Jews for verbal and physical abuse, and worse in many places, because those who deny the biblical God are in power or rising to take it. Corrupt human power and Divinity are mutually exclusive.
As a manifestation of this rising aggression toward Western religious values, atheism and secularism have become cool and trendy among those making the absurd case for the shabbiness of human nature as the planet’s preeminent force. Though the Founders foresaw the need to constrain such force via the Constitution, secularists have decided that this is their time to rise and forcibly convert the rest of us, or punish or re-educate us.  Their influences and voices are becoming louder and angrier, and their attacks more confident. They are empowered by the fact that the dominance of the left in politics, the media, and entertainment means that they are largely free to do or say any offensive or vile thing they wish, since the watchdogs endorse their crimes and make it unpopular and painful for anyone who might oppose them.
The denial of the biblical God in America has been a decades-long work in progress. After all, the elimination of a Divine Being from the equation leaves deeply flawed humans as the sole arbiters of what constitutes acceptable human behavior. When one does not have to answer for his cruelties, hatred, bigotry, violence, etc., life becomes a lot more pleasant for the aggressor. Similarly, if there is no God, the treatment of His believers as mindless simpletons is more easily justified, since who else but a backwards hick would believe that something other than man, or random chance, created all that is around us, in measures of complexity and symmetry that humans still have not yet deciphered? Sure, we all get that species evolve over time to adapt, but no one has yet explained plausibly why, if we magically grew from single-celled entities in the muck, new humans don’t continue to magically “evolve” under the same conditions. We still have muck and have had eons of time. Where are the new evolving humans?
The Christian concept of a human soul is offensive to those who recoil at the thought that their existence might derive in any way from a Divine Being to whom they will one day answer. If they admitted to that, then they might also have to concede that the God from whom their soul derived has rules, and they hate rules they didn’t write, rewrite, or make up on the spot, depending on their need to get away with something.
With God replaced by humans as nature’s biggest and best, other behaviors become easier to rationalize. If there are no rules imposed by God for human behavior, then morality is a manufactured concept and is purely optional. Truth and honor, as manifestations of morality, are artificial and therefore are silly. What matters are the ends. But with God gone, whose ends are dominant? Why, the left’s ends, of course. But don’t worry. If there were a God, they tell us, he would side with them, because they have deigned to label their oppression “moral.”
This belies another odd fallacy of secularism as the left practices it. If there is no God, from where does the virtue arise that is so often pushed as the leftist’s justification for tyranny? From leftists, of course. With God out of the way, leftists will decide for us what is best, what crumbs they will allow us to have, what we will be allowed to do. It’s not that leftists don’t like moral codes being imposed upon mankind. It’s that leftists have figured out that it must be a flexible moral code that protects them as they coldly force their preferences on others, against their inferiors’ will.
This brings us to a fact the left simply cannot abide. Every human is endowed with free will. The concept that each life is sacred is based in part upon the fact that each is blessed with the ability to rationally weigh moral choices and, based on concepts like future consequences and a greater good, choose right from wrong. No other species can foresee, for instance, the disastrous effects of a bad moral decision extending in perpetuity. Many Christians recognize that the vehicle for this trait is the human soul, an inexplicable gift connecting us to the Divine, by which we exercise free will either to move closer to Him or move farther away.
Because each of us is endowed with this gift, no one is better or more entitled than another. As such, we are likewise endowed by God with the inherent gift of autonomy, with unalienable rights to be free from the false human gods who have denied the actual God in order to replace Him with their own presumed superiority. Deny God, and those truths magically vanish from the discourse, to be replaced with the argument that rights derive from man, and are gifted to man by other men. If there is no God, no soul, no Divine spark, there is no autonomy. Human power is all there is, and the rules are whatever other humans decide they will be for those they intend to rule. At this point, inherent rights can and will be rescinded by man.
And here we find ourselves now. God is the left’s most hated enemy, though they will cynically invoke God to mislead the gullible. They protest that their secularism, and their goals of dominance and control of other humans, are altruistic and are thus Godly. They ignore that their rationalization of altruism is itself an act of tyranny, in which they have made themselves and their values superior to those whom they seek to control or victimize. As they pretend to be motivated by charity and kindness toward society, they advance only those who swear obedience to the power they wield. Oaths are mere formalities, since there is no God who will hold them to account for their infidelity. Honor is foolishness, since only the accomplishment of dominance over those who disagree matters. There is no greater good, no higher call, than power over others.
Good has always warred with evil. So it is now. God and Satan are forever vying for human souls. Those who swear allegiance to human vice are increasingly feeling free to attack those who don’t. No matter. To surrender to evil is not only to lose our innate freedom, but to dishonor the Divine spark that was gifted to each of us. The farther we get from God, His rules, His virtues, His essence, the worse it becomes.
Rather than abandon God because the cool kids are all doing it, while threatening us with rescission of rights, curtailment of religious freedom, “hate” laws, bigotry, and prejudice, we must ask His help. God has blessed America. When we have had enough of man and turn back to God, we may be worthy of true success, rather than the failure that has come to every other nation that has placed the corrupt power of man over the divinity of God.
HT: American Thinker
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2019, 09:42:37 PM »
The denial of the biblical God in America has been a decades-long work in progress.

Correct. This is due to the fact that God has chosen to hide himself for thousands of years. Any time he wants to show up and lead us, he's welcome to.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 05:00:45 PM by P1tchBlack »

fuzzynavol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 10:06:49 PM »

Any time he wants to show up and lead us, he's welcome to.



DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2019, 01:53:18 PM »
The denial of the biblical God in America has been a decades-long work in progress.

Correct. This is due to the fact that God has chosen to hide himself for thousands of years. Any time he wants to show up and lead us, he's welcome to.
Mark Twain had a saying Better to be thought of a fool than open mouth and remove all doubt. In your case you right clicked on reply, pecked a few words and right clicked on reply. Different process same results
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 01:54:13 PM »


Well Fuzz sad to say so far you choose to follow Satan, just like your twin brother of a different mother
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 01:55:21 PM »
Not that it matters, but Twain did not originate that quote, nor did Lincoln.


https://www.npr.org/2017/04/04/522581148/hemingway-didnt-say-that-and-neither-did-twain-or-kafka


Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 01:56:40 PM »
As has been noted many times, our Constitution does not mention God at all.  It mentions religion in the sense that government should stay out of it.

And of course some of the influential Founding Fathers were not Christians.

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 02:21:34 PM »
Hip hip Hip I am Deputy Dip of the internet posting police. Either post like I demand or get ready to pay the price.


But you at least not threatening to delete my post like you have in the past



and just remenber to



https://www.quotedb.com/quotes/1098
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 02:23:16 PM »
I do not understand how our founding documents are tied together
You mean there is something you do not know.
Shocked I tell you, shocked
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

gymvol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 02:30:34 PM »

If people who think they are so intelligent would only read something and be able to understand what they read before commenting we wouldn't have to explain so much or had taken American History.

So who were they to secure their Blessings for Liberty and Posterity from?   Since they were Christians that would be God.



We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.




Even though people try to make the claim Thomas Jefferson was a secular person he showed he believed in God when he wrote the Declaration of Independence.


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 02:33:21 PM »
Jefferson very clearly was a Deist, as was Madison.  Jefferson did believe in a Creator, as do most or all Deists.  They were not atheists, nor did I claim they were.  I noted they were not Christians, and they were not alone in that.


DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2019, 02:43:47 PM »
Jefferson very clearly was a Deist, as was Madison.  Jefferson did believe in a Creator, as do most or all Deists.  They were not atheists, nor did I claim they were.  I noted they were not Christians, and they were not alone in that.
Thanks for proving my point you are clueless on our founding documents and fathers

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence
[th]Religious Affiliation[/th]
[th]# of
signers
[/th]
[th]% of
signers
[/th]
Episcopalian/Anglican3257.1%
Congregationalist1323.2%
Presbyterian1221.4%
Quaker23.6%
Unitarian or Universalist23.6%
Catholic11.8%
TOTAL56100%
[th]
Name of Signer
[/th]
[th]State[/th]
[th]Religious Affiliation[/th]
Charles CarrollMarylandCatholic
Samuel HuntingtonConnecticutCongregationalist
Roger ShermanConnecticutCongregationalist
William WilliamsConnecticutCongregationalist
Oliver WolcottConnecticutCongregationalist
Lyman HallGeorgiaCongregationalist
Samuel AdamsMassachusettsCongregationalist
John HancockMassachusettsCongregationalist
Josiah BartlettNew HampshireCongregationalist
William WhippleNew HampshireCongregationalist
William ElleryRhode IslandCongregationalist
John AdamsMassachusettsCongregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat PaineMassachusettsCongregationalist; Unitarian
George WaltonGeorgiaEpiscopalian
John PennNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian
George RossPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr.South CarolinaEpiscopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr.South CarolinaEpiscopalian
Arthur MiddletonSouth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Edward RutledgeSouth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Francis Lightfoot LeeVirginiaEpiscopalian
Richard Henry LeeVirginiaEpiscopalian
George ReadDelawareEpiscopalian
Caesar RodneyDelawareEpiscopalian
Samuel ChaseMarylandEpiscopalian
William PacaMarylandEpiscopalian
Thomas StoneMarylandEpiscopalian
Elbridge GerryMassachusettsEpiscopalian
Francis HopkinsonNew JerseyEpiscopalian
Francis LewisNew YorkEpiscopalian
Lewis MorrisNew YorkEpiscopalian
William HooperNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Robert MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian
John MortonPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian
Stephen HopkinsRhode IslandEpiscopalian
Carter BraxtonVirginiaEpiscopalian
Benjamin HarrisonVirginiaEpiscopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr.VirginiaEpiscopalian
George WytheVirginiaEpiscopalian
Thomas JeffersonVirginiaEpiscopalian (Deist)
Benjamin FranklinPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian (Deist)
Button GwinnettGeorgiaEpiscopalian; Congregationalist
James WilsonPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph HewesNorth CarolinaQuaker, Episcopalian
George ClymerPennsylvaniaQuaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKeanDelawarePresbyterian
Matthew ThorntonNew HampshirePresbyterian
Abraham ClarkNew JerseyPresbyterian
John HartNew JerseyPresbyterian
Richard StocktonNew JerseyPresbyterian
John WitherspoonNew JerseyPresbyterian
William FloydNew YorkPresbyterian
Philip LivingstonNew YorkPresbyterian
James SmithPennsylvaniaPresbyterian
George TaylorPennsylvaniaPresbyterian
Benjamin RushPennsylvaniaPresbyterian


Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Articles of Confederation
[th]Religious Affiliation[/th]
[th]# of
signers
[/th]
[th]% of
signers
[/th]
Episcopalian/Anglican1429%
Congregationalist919%
Presbyterian48%
Catholic12%
Quaker12%
Huguenot12%
Lutheran12%
Protestant, denomination unknown1838%
TOTAL48100%
[th]
Name of Signer
[/th]
[th]State[/th]
[th]Religious Affiliation[/th]
Daniel CarrollMarylandCatholic
Andrew AdamsConnecticutCongregationalist
Richard HutsonSouth CarolinaCongregationalist
Samuel AdamsMassachusettsCongregationalist
Josiah BartlettNew HampshireCongregationalist
William ElleryRhode IslandCongregationalist
John HancockMassachusettsCongregationalist
Samuel HuntingtonConnecticutCongregationalist
Roger ShermanConnecticutCongregationalist
Oliver WolcottConnecticutCongregationalist
Thomas Heyward Jr.South CarolinaEpiscopalian
John PennNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Francis Lightfoot LeeVirginiaEpiscopalian
Richard Henry LeeVirginiaEpiscopalian
Francis LewisNew YorkEpiscopalian
Elbridge GerryMassachusettsEpiscopalian
John BanisterVirginiaEpiscopalian
James DuaneNew YorkEpiscopalian
Edward LangworthyGeorgiaEpiscopalian
Gouverneur MorrisNew YorkEpiscopalian
Nicholas Van DykeDelawareEpiscopalian
Robert MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian
Cornelius HarnettNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian (Deist)
John DickinsonDelawareQuaker; Episcopalian
Henry LaurensSouth CarolinaHuguenot
John HansonMarylandLutheran
Thomas McKeanDelawarePresbyterian
John WitherspoonNew JerseyPresbyterian
John WaltonGeorgiaPresbyterian
Nathaniel ScudderNew JerseyPresbyterian
William ClinganPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknown
Joseph ReedPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknown
Daniel RoberdeauPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknown
Jonathan Bayard SmithPennsylvaniaProtestant, denomination unknown
Francis DanaMassachusettsProtestant, denomination unknown
Samuel HoltenMassachusettsProtestant, denomination unknown
James LovellMassachusettsProtestant, denomination unknown
Henry MarchantRhode IslandProtestant, denomination unknown
John CollinsRhode IslandProtestant, denomination unknown
Thomas AdamsVirginiaProtestant, denomination unknown
John HarvieVirginiaProtestant, denomination unknown
John MathewsSouth CarolinaProtestant, denomination unknown
William Henry DraytonSouth CarolinaProtestant, denomination unknown
William DuerNew YorkProtestant, denomination unknown
Titus HosmerConnecticutProtestant, denomination unknown
Edward TelfairGeorgiaProtestant, denomination unknown
John Wentworth Jr.New HampshireProtestant, denomination unknown
John WilliamsNorth CarolinaProtestant, denomination unknown




Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the
Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the
Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America



[th]eligious Affiliation[/th]
[th]# of
delegates
[/th]
[th]% of
delegates
[/th]
Episcopalian/Anglican3156.4%
Presbyterian1629.1%
Congregationalist814.5%
Quaker35.5%
Catholic23.6%
Methodist23.6%
Lutheran23.6%
Dutch Reformed23.6%
TOTAL55100%
[th]
Name of Signer
[/th]
[th]State[/th]
[th]Religious Affiliation[/th]
Daniel CarrollMarylandCatholic
Thomas FitzsimonsPennsylvaniaCatholic
Roger ShermanConnecticutCongregationalist
Nathaniel GorhamMassachusettsCongregationalist
John LangdonNew HampshireCongregationalist
Nicholas GilmanNew HampshireCongregationalist
Abraham BaldwinGeorgiaCongregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel JohnsonConnecticutEpiscopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr.VirginiaEpiscopalian
George ReadDelawareEpiscopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas JeniferMarylandEpiscopalian
David BrearlyNew JerseyEpiscopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr.North CarolinaEpiscopalian
Robert MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian
Gouverneur MorrisPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian
John RutledgeSouth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Charles Cotesworth PinckneySouth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Charles PinckneySouth CarolinaEpiscopalian
Pierce ButlerSouth CarolinaEpiscopalian
George WashingtonVirginiaEpiscopalian
Benjamin FranklinPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian (Deist)
William BlountNorth CarolinaEpiscopalian; Presbyterian
James WilsonPennsylvaniaEpiscopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus KingMassachusettsEpiscopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob BroomDelawareLutheran
William FewGeorgiaMethodist
Richard BassettDelawareMethodist
Gunning Bedford Jr.DelawarePresbyterian
James McHenryMarylandPresbyterian
William LivingstonNew JerseyPresbyterian
William PatersonNew JerseyPresbyterian
Hugh WilliamsonNorth CarolinaPresbyterian
Jared IngersollPennsylvaniaPresbyterian
Alexander HamiltonNew YorkHuguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan DaytonNew JerseyPresbyterian; Episcopalian
John BlairVirginiaPresbyterian; Episcopalian
John DickinsonDelawareQuaker; Episcopalian
George ClymerPennsylvaniaQuaker; Episcopalian
Thomas MifflinPennsylvaniaQuaker; Lutheran

[th]
Name of Non-Signing Delegate
[/th]
[th]State[/th]
[th]Religious Affiliation[/th]
Oliver EllsworthConnecticutCongregationalist
Caleb StrongMassachusettsCongregationalist
John Lansing, Jr.New YorkDutch Reformed
Robert YatesNew YorkDutch Reformed
William HoustounGeorgiaEpiscopalian
William Leigh PierceGeorgiaEpiscopalian
Luther MartinMarylandEpiscopalian
John F. MercerMarylandEpiscopalian
Elbridge GerryMassachusettsEpiscopalian
George MasonVirginiaEpiscopalian
Edmund J. RandolphVirginiaEpiscopalian
George WytheVirginiaEpiscopalian
James McClurgVirginiaPresbyterian
William C. HoustonNew JerseyPresbyterian
William R. DavieNorth CarolinaPresbyterian
Alexander MartinNorth CarolinaPresbyterian


President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

gymvol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2019, 02:44:23 PM »
Jefferson very clearly was a Deist, as was Madison.  Jefferson did believe in a Creator, as do most or all Deists.  They were not atheists, nor did I claim they were.  I noted they were not Christians, and they were not alone in that.




I suppose you're going to tell us you knew Jefferson personally.   That would be the only way you would know exactly if he was or wasn't since we have so much revisionist history to fit the left wing liberals view of how they want it to be.


Maybe you would like to explain why we have the Ten Commandments displayed in the Supreme Court and why we have In God we Trust on our money if we were not a Christian nation which was founded by Christians.

I'll bet you don't have a clue as to why the Pilgrims came to America.

Your do know you're as full of shit as a constipated elephant?

gymvol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2019, 02:45:38 PM »
Not that it matters, but Twain did not originate that quote, nor did Lincoln.


https://www.npr.org/2017/04/04/522581148/hemingway-didnt-say-that-and-neither-did-twain-or-kafka


It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

This quote has been attributed to Abraham Lincoln, Mark Twain and Samuel Johnson, among others.


http://quotegeek.com/literature/mark-twain/5257/

Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2019, 02:46:19 PM »
Are you claiming Jefferson and Madison were not Deists?

Ben Franklin?  Perhaps even George Washington?  (That is less clear.)




Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2019, 02:48:45 PM »
https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

It is rather widely accepted that Jefferson was not a Christian.  It is very apparent from his writings and words.  I don't think it is remotely debatable.

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2019, 02:54:27 PM »
I like to ignore the elephant in the room while I try to nibble at the edges 
:72: Yep just like Vandy
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

gymvol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2019, 04:43:21 PM »

I'm not claiming anything but from my studying of American History it was a nation founded by Christians not Secularists or Atheist that's why we see references to God in documents, buildings and money just about everything from early American history.




Signers of the Declaration of Independence - Christian Background

Many question whether our Founders really were Christians. Here are some facts about the signers of the Declaration of Independence. (See also the post from 10/25 about signers of the Constitution.)


Adams, John - Congregationalist and later a Unitarian (he did not accept the Trinity). He said, "To enable me to maintain this declaration I rely, under God, with entire confidence on the firm and enlightened support of the national legislature and upon the virtue and patriotism of my fellow citizens." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)


  • Adams, Samuel - Congregationalist. "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come." Also: "The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Bartlett, Josiah - Bartlett was a Congregationalist. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Braxton, Carter - Braxton was a member of the Episcopal church. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Carroll, Charles - Roman Catholic. Carroll said, "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Chase, Samuel - Chase was an Episcopalian. As a Supreme Court Justince he said, "Religion is of general and public concern, and on its support depend, in great measure, the peace and good order of government, the safety and happiness of the people. By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Clark, Abraham - Clark was a Presbyterian, and said once, ""Nothing short of the Almighty Power of God can Save us-it is not in our Numbers, our Union, or our Valour that I dare trust." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Clymer, George - Was both a Quaker and an Episcopalian (Signer of Declaration of Independence, Delegate to Constitutional Convention, Signer of Constitution)
  • Ellery, William - Ellery was known as a Congregationalist and a devout Christian. From Lossing's "Signers of the Declaration of Independence" we hear, "As a patriot and a Christian, his name will ever be revered." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Floyd, William - Floyd was a Presbyterian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Gerry, Elbridge - Gerry was an Episcopalian. Promoted Massachusetts' Religious Freedoms Act. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Gwinnett, Button - Gwinnett was an Episcopalian and a Congregationalist. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hall, Lyman - Hall was a Congregationalist and served as a minister in Connecticut. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hancock, John - Hancock was a Congregationalist. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Harrison, Benjamin - Harrison was a member of the Episcopal church. He professed that religion was necessary to society and that government should support it. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hart, John - Hart was a Presbyterian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hewes, Joseph - Hewes was a Quaker and an Episcopalian. He was the son of a pious and well-to-do Quaker farmer and received a strict religious upbringing. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Heyward, Thomas - Heyward was a member of the Episcopal church. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hooper, William - Hooper was an Episcopalian. He was trained at Harvard as a minister. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hopkins, Stephen - He was a Quaker with an active interest in the church. He believed in the divinity of the Christian religion. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Hopkinson, Francis - Hopkinson was an Episcopalian. He became a Church music director and edited a hymnal that set all of 150 psalms to music. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Huntington, Samuel - He was a Congregationalist. According to B. J. Lossing's “Signers of the Declaration of Independence,” it is known that “Governor Huntington lived the life of the irreproachable and sincere Christian... as a devoted Christian and a true patriot, he never swerved from duty...” (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Jefferson, Thomas - Jefferson was probably best called a Deist, but he is also claimed by Unitarians and some Christian denominations. He was the one who penned the idea that our rights come from God (“Creator”) (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Lee, Francis Lightfoot - Lee was an Anglican and a devout Christian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Lee, Richard Henry - Lee was an Anglican and known as a sincere Christian. He professed that religion was necessary to society and that government should support it. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Lewis, Francis - Lewis was an Episcopalian. His father was an Episcopal clergyman, his mother was a clergyman's daughter. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Livingston, Philip - Livingston was a Presbyterian and belonged to an eminent Christian family. He followed the Christian religion. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Lynch, Thomas - Member of the Episcopal Church (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Madison, James - Member of the Episcopal Church. He said, "The belief in a God, all powerful, wise, and good, [is] essential to the moral order of the world, and to the happiness of man." (Signer of Declaration of Independence, Delegate to Constitutional Convention, Signer of Constitution)
  • McKean, Thomas - McKean was a member of the Presbyterian Church. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Middleton, Arthur - Member of the Episcopal Church (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Morris, Lewis - Morris was an Episcopalian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Morris, Robert - Member of the Episcopal Church (Signer of Declaration of Independence, Delegate to Constitutional Convention, Signer of Constitution)
  • Morton, John - Member of the Episcopal Church. In his will he said, “...for the settling of such temporal estate as it hath pleased God to bless me with in this life...” (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Nelson, Thomas Jr. - Nelson was a member of the Episcopal church. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Paca, William - Pa
  • ca was an Episcopalian and a consistent Christian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Paine, Robert - Paine left Calvinism to become a Unitarian. He served as a military chaplain. He said, "I am constrained to express my adoration of . . . the Author of my existence . . . [for] His forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending happiness in a future state." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Penn, John - Penn was a member of the Episcopalian church. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Read, George - Read was an Episcopalian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence, Signer of Constitution)
  • Rodney, Caesar - Rodney was an Episcopalian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Rush, Benjamin - Rush was a Presbyterian. He was founder and manager of the Philadelphia Bible Society (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Ross, George - Ross was an Anglican. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Rutledge, Edwards - Rutledge was an Anglican. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Smith, James - Smith was a Presbyterian. He was quite strick that those in his presense should not speak ill of Christianity. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Stockton, Richard - Stockton was a Presbyterian. He said, "I think it proper here not only to subscribe to . . . doctrines of the Christian religion . . . but also, in the bowels of a father's affection, to exhort and charge them [my children] that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is calculated for the most complete happiness." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Stone, Thomas - Stone was an Episcopalian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Taylor, George - Taylor was a Presbyterian and the son of a clergyman. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Thornton, Matthew - Thornton was a member of the Presbyterian Church and known as a devout Christian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Walton, George - Walton was an Episcopalian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Whipple, William - . (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Williams, William - Williams was a Congregationalist and a devout Christian. He studied for the ministry. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Witherspoon, John - Witherspoon was a Presbyterian. He said, "hun, as a contagious pestilence,... those especially whom you perceive to be infected with the principles of infidelity or [who are] enemies to the power of religion" (Signer of Declaration of Independence, Signer of Constitution)
  • Wolcott, Oliver - He was a Congregationalist and a devout Christian. (Signer of Declaration of Independence)
  • Wythe, George - Wythe was a member of the Episcopal church. He helped draft instructions for an embassy in Canada, which said, "You are further to declare that we hold sacred the rights of conscience, and may promise to the whole people, solemnly in our name, the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion. And...that all civil rights and the right to hold office were to be extended to persons of any Christian denomination." (Signer of Declaration of Independence)




http://churchvstate.blogspot.com/2007/10/signers-of-declaration-of-independence.html

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2019, 04:47:05 PM »
I'm not claiming anything but from my studying of American History it was a nation founded by Christians not Secularists or Atheist that's why we see references to God in documents, buildings and money just about everything from early American history.




Signers of the Declaration of Independence - Christian Background
They do not like to read for the most part. I think it hurts their brains
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2019, 05:02:05 PM »
Mark Twain had a saying Better to be thought of a fool than open mouth and remove all doubt. In your case you right clicked on reply, pecked a few words and right clicked on reply. Different process same results
First.... It's a left click.
Second....when is the last time you saw God/Jesus? I mean, they're both immortal so....

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2019, 06:08:26 PM »
First.... It's a left click.
Second....when is the last time you saw God/Jesus? I mean, they're both immortal so....
I told you once of where he definitely worked in our lives but you said you did not want to read it. 
You choose to not see his works as you have eyes and do not see, ears and do not hear and a brain and do not think.
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2019, 06:18:05 PM »
I told you once of where he definitely worked in our lives but you said you did not want to read it.
You choose to not see his works as you have eyes and do not see, ears and do not hear and a brain and do not think.
I'm not talking about things that only believers would see as him working.  I'm talking about an actual presence.  It's been a couple thousand years.

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2019, 06:29:51 PM »
I'm not talking about things that only believers would see as him working.  I'm talking about an actual presence.  It's been a couple thousand years.
Answered ''you have eyes and do not see, ears and do not hear and a brain and do not think.''
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2019, 06:59:51 PM »
Answered ''you have eyes and do not see, ears and do not hear and a brain and do not think.''
I'm pretty sure I said this before...
If every Bible was wiped off of the face of the Earth and all of our memories regarding Christianity were erased, in a thousand years, science will be right back to where it is now and Christianity would cease to exist.  

DunkingDan

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2019, 07:18:01 PM »
I'm pretty sure I said this before...
If every Bible was wiped off of the face of the Earth and all of our memories regarding Christianity were erased, in a thousand years, science will be right back to where it is now and Christianity would cease to exist.  
Did not work real well in Russia, if you read up on some of what went on there you might understand why it would not work under your proportion. 
 
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2019, 07:24:29 PM »
Did not work real well in Russia, if you read up on some of what went on there you might understand why it would not work under your proportion.
 
without the Bible and people passing down Christianity from generation to generation, what reason would there be to believe in the Christian God?

Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2019, 08:16:15 PM »
Ostensibly, for Eternal Salvation?

gymvol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2019, 11:18:40 PM »
I'm pretty sure I said this before...
If every Bible was wiped off of the face of the Earth and all of our memories regarding Christianity were erased, in a thousand years, science will be right back to where it is now and Christianity would cease to exist.  


Christianity has been a growing religion for over two thousand years long before people had bibles. Many of them could not even read but the word didn't die out it continued spread and still does today. Certainly you don't think that was by chance.

God has existed in our world from the very beginning without him there would not be anything this world and all that's in it would not exist.

He also gave man a brain so that he could think for himself and know right from wrong but there are a lot of people who just don't use them.

Cincydawg

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2019, 08:31:50 AM »
Are folks here desirous of a Christian led theocracy?  Something like Iran, but Christian in design?  

The Constitution would seem to be clear on that, so we'd need a new one I think.  Maybe this armed insurrection thing some appear to desire and support could lead to that.

gymvol

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Re: Who Shall Led Us - God Or Man?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2019, 09:21:21 AM »


Some people don't know anymore about our country's history or the founding documents than they do anything else yet the still act like experts on every subject.

Our country was founded by Christians so they could have free worship of religion yet we still have people who want to tell us Christianity had no part in our country's history.






 

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