Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
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Topic: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims

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DunkingDan

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2019, 04:37:27 PM »
Bringing up one example, Southern Baptists in this case, is NOT ignoring every last example that that can be had, ESPECIALLY when the overarching problem capturing the rest of those supposedly ignored examples is clearly referenced. An exhaustive list of everything I’m accused of ignoring would be about the only thing lengthier than your endlessly self-unaware posts.
They are already posted in this tread

As I said and the proof lies to a degree in this tread. "You totally ignored the elephant in the room as well as those other secular institutions were trust has been placed grossly abusing that trust and guilty of the same cover ups.''

As to the other issues I pointed out in the original to the above post is not only in this thread but many others as well.



President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2019, 04:44:58 PM »
I’ve railed against the Catholic Church’s money motivated celibacy forced on their priests due to the severe unintended consequences of deprived sexuality. Though the Baptist’s allow marriage it’s not enough - they’re in trouble too.

It isn’t Biblical to call male sexuality exactly what it is - predatory, sinister, and self-serving - but in a practical sense those are the most accurate characteristics of male sexuality as they play out nearly everyday.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/investigations/article/Southern-Baptist-sexual-abuse-spreads-as-leaders-13588038.php
Everything is bigger in Texas...including the church scandals.

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2019, 05:03:07 PM »

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii]
Again... 1950 to 2001 AND, it's easy to keep your stats looking good when you cover-up the crimes and pay off the victims.  Other entities, like public schools don't have that, that luxury.

DunkingDan

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #33 on: February 11, 2019, 05:12:39 PM »
I like to ignore a lot even though I was exposed for being fuzzy ignorant in the very recent past in this thread.

As posted previously in you whine about Texas
The sexual misconduct percentages have been relative stable for years. 286 leaders which includes deacons, priest and other staff is a not that high (Got to consider that number is those who have been accused -may or not be guilty) is accused considering that there are (the last I looked a few years ago) over 40,000 Roman Catholic priest in the US. That is priest not counting Deacons and other staff when you do that a the number  goes to around 180,000 and maybe higher still. As Texas has a high population of RC. the numbers do not come close to other protestant religions and many secular occupations.

As I said. I have given you the documentation as I have for others multiple times in the past as well as to the higher numbers in some protestant denominations and secular jobs such as some in the academia/coaching fields, some medical fields, etc.

As I said ''The problem I see here is that only ~1.8% of Roman Catholic Priest have committed sexual misconduct which is much lower than Minsters in other religions as well as most secular institutions. The only reasons we are seeing the issues raised is the fact many of the Church Hierarchy hid it (much like many other secular institutions) and the bigotry against the Roman Catholics.
Let me be clear I am no fan of the RCC, but the amount of attention given this while the bigger issue with it in other institutions is ignored is troubling and telling.''


You wear the shoe so well as do a few others on here

Likewise you ignore some of the stats include consensual  sexual relations between adults. I am not saying that some Church employees did not misuse their position to encourage relations.

However you and the gang of usual suspects as I have said ignore the secular problems and that is for no other reason than your bigotry and hate of the Church

Note the charts are of just sexual crimes nor do they properly reflect the difference in way crimes are tabulated in the US for national data for example TN reports all five levels individual while some other states only report the most serious of the levels murder being the highest. Sorry I do not recall if rape is in the 2nd level or third. This change has secured recent data. We covered this when your twin brother of a different mother claimed Tn had a higher crime rate than other states. 


« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 05:26:00 PM by DunkingDan »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2019, 05:24:18 PM »
There have been a number of large sexual abuse scandals related to the Catholic church and now the Baptist Church they have been exposed. What's the last secular organization that has had a major sexual abuse cover-up exposed

Hoojang

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2019, 06:38:06 PM »
There have been a number of large sexual abuse scandals related to the Catholic church and now the Baptist Church they have been exposed. What's the last secular organization that has had a major sexual abuse cover-up exposed
Hollywood
Rap musicians
nfl
nba
public schools
universities and colleges
federal and state governments
etc

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2019, 06:40:47 PM »
Hollywood
Rap musicians
nfl
nba
public schools
universities and colleges
federal and state governments
etc
Which of those has had a handful of massive cover-ups exposed? We're talking hundreds of people and thousands of victims.

DunkingDan

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2019, 06:43:06 PM »
I do not realize that many secular sexual perversions have been exposed, especially in the public school systems as well as government, but do not receive national attention. 
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2019, 06:48:07 PM »


Again, I'm looking for an example, in a secular institution, where cover-ups as large as the Catholic / Baptist Church have been discovered.

Hoojang

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2019, 06:53:01 PM »
According to hollywood actresses alone there's been 100's of 1000's of women sexually abused over the past century alone by the entertainment industry that we're just learning about. You want to go and add up all the K-12 and college students that have been sexually abused by their educators over the past century? Go ahead, you'll find 1000's and obviously many were covered up back in the day......

I'm in no way making excuses for anyone that sexually abuses another person. Prosecute each and everyone to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of their station in life....

You're assertion that this is somehow just limited to Baptists and Catholics is ridiculous and only exposes your ignorance and bigotry for all to see.  

DunkingDan

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2019, 07:01:02 PM »

I ignored posts where examples where given 

All I care about is whining about evil Christians 
True
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2019, 09:15:26 PM »
According to hollywood actresses alone there's been 100's of 1000's of women sexually abused over the past century alone by the entertainment industry that we're just learning about. You want to go and add up all the K-12 and college students that have been sexually abused by their educators over the past century? Go ahead, you'll find 1000's and obviously many were covered up back in the day......

I'm in no way making excuses for anyone that sexually abuses another person. Prosecute each and everyone to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of their station in life....

You're assertion that this is somehow just limited to Baptists and Catholics is ridiculous and only exposes your ignorance and bigotry for all to see.  
I asked for examples of large cases of sexual abuse cover-up.  Was there some cover-up in Hollywood?  Maybe, but how many women have come forward.  Have public schools, on a large scales basis, tried to pay off/silence accusers?  Has it come out that the school system has tried to protect HUNDREDS of teachers?

Hoojang

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2019, 09:58:46 PM »
You asked for examples and I provided them. I'm not doing your research for you, if you don't know that the actresses claimed that it's been going on for decades and is now coming out I can't help you even if I was so inclined, which I'm not....
 

highVOLtage

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2019, 10:13:38 PM »

Again, I'm looking for an example, in a secular institution, where cover-ups as large as the Catholic / Baptist Church have been discovered.

CONGRESS.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html

« Last Edit: February 11, 2019, 10:30:30 PM by highVOLtage »

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2019, 10:41:40 PM »
CONGRESS.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/settlements-congress-sexual-harassment/index.html
I guess it's similar, although the article says that congress didn't even know how bad the problem was. There doesn't appear to be any kind of cover up, and the amount paid out is chump change compared to the Catholic church has paid.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 08:32:38 AM by P1tchBlack »

CatsbyAZ

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2019, 06:31:08 AM »
They are already posted in this tread

As I said and the proof lies to a degree in this tread. "You totally ignored the elephant in the room as well as those other secular institutions were trust has been placed grossly abusing that trust and guilty of the same cover ups.''

As to the other issues I pointed out in the original to the above post is not only in this thread but many others as well.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say, but I’m glad it’s not taking 2 minutes of scrolling to get past it.

Hoojang

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2019, 04:40:12 PM »
The pastor of the church I attend put out the following today.


Calling Out Our Own
 
Big problems are never solved by denial and they’re perpetuated by “protecting our own.”  Until we start “calling out our own,” that which should not be, will continue to be.  Good men should be the first the call out bad men who abuse.  Good women should be the first to stand against women who falsely accuse men of abuse (and it DOES happen sometimes). 
 
Republicans should be the first to call out their own on misconduct, exaggerations, and the demonization of Democrats.  And Democrats should be the first to call out their own on misconduct, exaggerations, and the demonization of Republicans.  When those of either party start to act in the interest of the party or getting power or staying in power, rather than the good of the county and its citizenship, it should be those in their own party who condemn such party-selfish behavior. 
 
The late and great Martin Luther King dreamed of a colorless society.  Racism will never be solved by racists.  A recent article by an African-American journalist recently equated a “Make America Great Again” hat with a Ku Klux Klan hood – HE’s a part of the problem.  Racists have no business writing about racism; it’s the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.  Blacks should be the first to call out blacks on such racist language and behavior.  And whites should be the first to call out whites – I’ll sure do my part.  If a policeman fires upon a suspect, the facts of the case should be what matters to thinking people of any race, not the color of either of their skin.  Wrong is wrong and right is right no matter who’s doing it.  Obsession with color will never create a colorless society.  With all of the progress made by King’s work, his dream of a colorless society is still just a dream. 
 
And then there’s the dark blot of sexual abuse.  It most often takes place where it should not – homes, schools, even churches.  Unless you’ve lived under a rock, you’re painfully aware of the abuse of minors (usually boys) worldwide by Catholic Priests.  Recent news revealed nuns being held by priests as sex-slaves.  Catholics, not journalists and child-advocates, should be voicing the greatest condemnation of such behavior.  Reform shouldn’t be forced upon them from without; the Catholic church should be doing everything necessary (and THEN some) from within. 
 
In today’s News Sentinel, there’s an article about sexual abuse in the Southern Baptist Convention.  A study jointly conducted by Houston and San Antonio newspapers discovered that over a period of 20 years, there were 700 reported cases of abuse perpetrated by 380 abusers in Southern Baptist churches.  Some of those abusers relocated to and served in other churches who had no knowledge of their sinful history. 
 
Southern Baptist churches, unlike in many denominations, are autonomous.  That means that they are their own entities, own their own property, hire their own staff, and do whatever they choose to do.  The Southern Baptist Convention, state conventions, and local associations have NO authority over those churches.  These churches cooperate to send 9,000 missionaries around the world, provide Christian education, children’s homes, disaster relief, and much, much more. 
 
The study revealed that 700 people had reported being sexually abused by someone in the church (not necessarily a minister).  There are surely more who did not report what happened to them.  700 people is .00004% of the SBC membership; this gives some perspective to its rare occurrence.  ONE person being abused is FAR too many, but these tragic incidents do not by any stretch of the imagination define who Southern Baptists are.    
 
It’s natural for organizations, people, families, and churches to want to protect their own reputations.  My guess is that you have some of your own “dirty laundry” that you are happy to keep private.  It’s also a Christian principle to help people change (repent) with the minimal amount of exposure.  If they hide; the church must uncover/expose.  If they uncover (confess and repent), then the church minimizes exposure.  (The goal is helping the person to change, not seeking to punish him/her.)
 
In the case of sexual abuse, though, it’s the victims and future, potential victims who have to be protected, not the abusers.  Can a person be forgiven by God?  Yes; if he/she repents.  Can that repentant person be restored to the church’s fellowship?  Yes.  Can that person ever be allowed in any position or situation in which the abuser could again abuse?  ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!  NEVER!!!   
 
The SBC is looking into how it can create a database to seek to ensure that someone accused of abuse cannot move to the next place without that church knowing of the past abuse.  I love what current SBC President J.D. Greear said – “The safety of the victims matters far more than the reputation of Southern Baptists.”
 
Churches, like organizations, like families…are made up of imperfect people.  All of us are broken by sin, just in different places and in varying degrees.  Churches attract damaged people who often want to change, but who are still controlled by their brokenness.  Churches are lights; lights attract bugs.  In the case of abusing children, most abusers were abused themselves as children.  This helps us to understand them; it in no way excuses them.
 
I’m fully aware that the Southern Baptist Convention cannot micromanage what happens in its 47,000+ churches.  But I’m deeply grateful that the SBC is trying to do whatever it can do to get this right.  My prayer is that every SBC church, and every SBC pastor, and every SBC member will be committed to calling out its own when they are wrong.  Right is right and wrong is wrong, no matter who’s doing it.  Even if it’s a friend.  Even if it’s a family member.  Even if it’s a pastor.
 
In the past several weeks I’ve spoken at Corryton on the fact that the only person that you submit to 100% is God Himself.  A wife and children are responsible to God, so they cannot submit to a husband or father who asks them to violate what God has told them in His Word to do or not to do. 
 
Implicit trust should only be given to God.  Teach your children what is right.  NEVER tell them to do whatever the teacher, or coach, or other parents, or even pastors tell them to do.  Such poor, inadequate, and unwise instruction has resulted in a lot of children being abused by people who were supposed to be safe and trusted.  Teach your children to immediately “blow the whistle on” anybody who tells them not to tell something to anyone else.  
 
Big problems can only have a chance of being solved when we cease living in denial.   Problems get perpetuated and exacerbated when we protect our own rather than calling out our own.  Churches will be better and safer places when we do this.  And wouldn’t it be a better America if blacks and whites and Republicans and Democrats and conservatives and liberals did this?  I have dream, too.


DunkingDan

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2019, 03:27:46 PM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2019, 03:29:26 PM »
The pastor of the church I attend put out the following today.


Calling Out Our Own

 I agree one is to many and cover-ups are uncalled for. Likewise falsely painting with a broad brush is bad.
However as I have said many time they want to talk about a speck in Churches eyes and ignore the log in the own 
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: Southern Baptist Abuse Scandal - 700 Victims
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2019, 04:10:32 PM »
I agree one is to many and cover-ups are uncalled for. Likewise falsely painting with a broad brush is bad.
However as I have said many time they want to talk about a speck in Churches eyes and ignore the log in the own
What is the secular log you're referring to that is comparable to the catholic church cover-ups?

 

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