Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
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Topic: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There

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Cincydawg

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2019, 09:21:12 AM »
That may be true, but it exists, it's popular, and IMHO not a fight worth fighting.

I suggested a simple solution that would eliminate it as a political issue.  Each locality of course could have their own MW if it's higher.

There was an Aldo near me advertising $12.75 an hour for entry level cashiers.  I'm not sure many jobs actually pay minimum wage today, maybe in the country somewhere.  

ATexasVol

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2019, 10:37:42 AM »
It is worth the fight out of a matter of Constitutional Law and principle.  Does the Constitution of the United States authorize Congress to set a minimum wage?   No, it does not.  Would doing so infringe on the right of the people to self-determination?   Yes, it would.  

If the government has the right to set minimum wage, then what else must it have jurisdiction over?   Medical insurance benefits (it is trying)?   Family leave (stay away from this one Trump)?   Number of vacation days? Executive compensation?   Dental and vision insurance benefits?   In "Atlas Shrugged", the federal government passed a bill preventing profitable companies from firing employees.   Can anyone see a problem with that?  As a business owner, why would I risk my capital and work my tail off if Big Brother is going to tell me how to run my business?   

We don't even have to go into the economics to figure out how bad an idea MW is.  It is a populist idea that feeds the badly misbegotten notion that government exists to fix everything.   

mcwterps1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2019, 10:39:47 AM »
LOL 

1. The article I posted shows you can live, and still doesn't include productivity, which would push the minimum wage to nearly $20 by today's standards. 

2.  Minimum wage is most definitely important, because slavery is illegal, although I'm sure a few here would love it to make a comeback.

3.  Minimum wage of republican led states, are usually lower, because it allows them to take more federal money and not pay it back, making them the real takers, moochers, or welfare recipients, whichever you prefer, which keeps cost of living down.

Also why those states tend to hate unions.

Showing people they are worth more, is obviously a sin in certain parts of the country. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2019, 10:48:58 AM »
So, do you think the minimum wage should be raised to $20 an hour today?

mcwterps1

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2019, 11:46:48 AM »
So, do you think the minimum wage should be raised to $20 an hour today?
No. I don't believe $10 is a stretch though.
I've always thought the "Fight For $15" was an aggressive starting point. 

DunkingDan

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2019, 05:06:48 PM »
It is worth the fight out of a matter of Constitutional Law and principle.  Does the Constitution of the United States authorize Congress to set a minimum wage?   No, it does not.  Would doing so infringe on the right of the people to self-determination?   Yes, it would.  

If the government has the right to set minimum wage, then what else must it have jurisdiction over?   Medical insurance benefits (it is trying)?   Family leave (stay away from this one Trump)?   Number of vacation days? Executive compensation?   Dental and vision insurance benefits?   In "Atlas Shrugged", the federal government passed a bill preventing profitable companies from firing employees.   Can anyone see a problem with that?  As a business owner, why would I risk my capital and work my tail off if Big Brother is going to tell me how to run my business?  

We don't even have to go into the economics to figure out how bad an idea MW is.  It is a populist idea that feeds the badly misbegotten notion that government exists to fix everything.  
They don't care what the constitution says nor the outcome of their PC madness 
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2019, 05:46:18 PM »
No. I don't believe $10 is a stretch though.
I've always thought the "Fight For $15" was an aggressive starting point.
I have shown that the highest point of the minimum wage adjusted for inflation was under $11 an hour.  Perhaps folks might compromise on that figure?

katmai

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2019, 10:05:38 PM »

Still don't know where you're getting your info from....
You have been questioning Cincy for saying that an adjusted minimum wage has never been over $11/hour, and then you post a graph that shows it has never been over $9.90/hour.   I am sure Cincy appreciates you posting a graph that confirms what he was saying.

HK_Vol

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2019, 11:16:13 PM »
http://www.aei.org/publication/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-of-minimum-wage-laws/


There is no inherent reason why low-skilled or high-risk employees are any less employable than high-skilled, low-risk employees. Someone who is five times as valuable to an employer is no more or less employable than someone who is one-fifth as valuable, when the pay differences reflect their differences in benefits to the employer.

This is more than a theoretical point. Historically, lower skill levels did not prevent black males from having labor force participation rates higher than that of white males for every US Census from 1890 through 1930. Since then, the general growth of wage-fixing arrangements: minimum wage laws, labor unions, civil service pay scales, etc. has reversed that and made more and more blacks unemployable despite their rising levels of education and skills: absolutely and relative to whites.

In short, no one is employable or unemployable absolutely, but only relative to a given pay scale.


https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/736527-unfortunately-the-real-minimum-wage-is-always-zero-regardless-of

“Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2019, 11:17:37 PM »
http://www.aei.org/publication/thomas-sowell-on-the-cruelty-of-minimum-wage-laws/


For example, in the study from the team of researchers at the University of Washington on Seattle’s $15 an hour minimum wage, they reported (emphasis added):

Our preferred estimates suggest that the Seattle Minimum Wage Ordinance caused hours worked by low-skilled workers (i.e., those earning under $19 per hour) to fall by 9.4% during the three quarters when the minimum wage was $13 per hour, resulting in a loss of 3.5 million hours worked per calendar quarter. Alternative estimates show the number of low-wage jobs declined by 6.8%, which represents a loss of more than 5,000 jobs.

The work of least-paid workers might be performed more efficiently by more skilled and experienced workers commanding a substantially higher wage.

HK_Vol

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gymvol

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2019, 10:29:13 AM »

We don't have a minimum wage crisis we have an illegal alien crisis flooding the labor market.

The same people, democrats, who claim to be for the person making minimum wage don't want to secure the southern border but allow a flood of illegal aliens in this country.

That in itself creates a huge labor pool for low skilled workers which drives the cost of labor down. 

When there is a shortage of labor which there would be without all the illegals in this country wages go up because businesses have to compete for workers so they have to pay more.

The republican establishment is also to blame because the Chamber of Commerce and Business Round Table wants the flood of cheap labor and the democrats want the votes.

What we have are polticians lying out of both sides of their mouth and people are to damned stupid to even know what the real problem is.

As usual instead of solving problems polticians only create others becuase it isn't large corporations who will suffer.

It will be small business who will be reducing head count and raising prices to off set the minimum wage hikes.

The people who work for those small businesses who lose their jobs will be the ones who suffer.

BrownCounty

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Re: Ocasio-Cortez is The Real Person From the Novel and Movie Being There
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2019, 11:55:51 AM »

It's about a simple minded uneducated gardner

The opening sentence tickled me.

Simple minded.  Uneducated.  "Gardner".

 

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