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Topic: OT: Online Civility

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bayareabadger

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #98 on: November 08, 2018, 12:52:56 PM »
you did just as you reported @bwarbiany , and i commend your attempt and appreciate your integrity.  i was disappointed in that interaction, but not from your activity in the least...

isolation in a place where concepts are reinforced and not challenged is a bad thing.  i've told them this over and over- and that they should entertain opposing views instead of believing the person posting intent on trolling alone.  

much of their clannishness comes directly from fly-by's we used to get on the other site- you guys talk about the merits of beans in chili- they deploy a few sorties in the form of personal attacks to deal with same.  
Me after reading this: There’s a politics board on here?
/Goes and gives it a look
Holy hell. My elbows ain’t sharp enough to deal with that.
This place is good. Even when we get testy with one another, it usually washes out pretty quick.

SFBadger96

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #99 on: November 08, 2018, 01:22:07 PM »
I have essentially zero interest in what they say on the Pac-12 board, let alone some alien political space.

I miss the old back porch thread on the Big 12 space on the cfn boards, but when I visited there in the new space it just wasn't the same so I haven't been back.

Change is hard.

The political side of this board--our BigTen board--is interesting to consider. We've all had our moments where we've been more or less explicit about our political leanings (see, for example, the Weather, Climate, and Environment thread--which I largely avoid). And as is true in the real world, we all have nuance to our views. There are people with whom I clearly share more political solidarity, but with whom I am not at all aligned on the important matters of college football, and vice versa.

I'm reasonably confident that I don't think anyone who posts here is a threat to America. And at the same time, if we were to strip away the football and focus on our politics, I would truly struggle to understand how some of us can reach the conclusions we do.

It seems like there might be a bigger lesson there about our common humanity ("community," as in "common" and "humanity"?) and patriotism, but I'm too busy to explicitly find it right now.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2018, 01:29:09 PM »
isolation in a place where concepts are reinforced and not challenged is a bad thing.  i've told them this over and over- and that they should entertain opposing views instead of believing the person posting intent on trolling alone.  
Yep. And maybe someone will drag them, kicking and screaming, to real debate. 
I just gave up. I'm not invested enough in any of it to try to fix that mess. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #101 on: November 08, 2018, 01:44:08 PM »
I find that once I appreciate I'm not going to change opinions on things like politics or whatever, it is all much better.

I tell people in real life, if asked, that I'm an "extreme moderate".  

The wife doesn't yet quite get American "politics", which is fine with me.  When in France, the entire dinner is taken up with talking political stuff.  Usually they are pouring some pretty serious wine, so I don't mind at all.

My "cousin" Thierry is particularly political.  His view of Americans is rather interesting.

MichiFan87

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #102 on: November 08, 2018, 02:38:15 PM »
When we first ended up here I was surprised to find on the A51 board a few people that were actually interested in energy policy. The one guy was all about roof-top solar for its cost-effectiveness and ability to help him disconnect from the grid. The other guy was pro-nuclear. For whatever reason, though, they couldn't come to any agreement with each other, much less me, about how they're both right to an extent, but there's still a lot of changes that are and will continue to happen. When I've made similar posts in the Environment thread, most of you seem to at least understand my points, even if you disagree with them.

I think a lot of it goes back to education, which I'd argue makes people become more future-minded and forward-thinking. Part of that may just be correlation instead of causation (ie. the intuitive v sensing split in the MBTI personality model, since intuitive people are more likely to be more educated) but either way it frequently holds true. Most people here have at least a college degree and many have graduate degrees. And now, of course, we're seeing increased correlations between education attainment and how people vote. This article explains this pretty well: http://www.people-press.org/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/
“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing”
― Bo Schembechler

Drew4UTk

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #103 on: November 08, 2018, 02:41:57 PM »
maybe, @MichiFan87 , but what you don't know about those two individuals is one is heavily invested in solar and the other retired from a nuclear plant..... and though that shouldn't matter, it adds some context to what you encountered.  that thread is an extension of one that existed on the other site, and it is largely two participants there and here. 

Cincydawg

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #104 on: November 08, 2018, 02:48:48 PM »
Humans obviously get emotional about whatever (including football oddly enough).  What "should" otherwise be a perfectly logical decision basis ends up often being emotional.  The former would suggest that everyone in that situation should choose Product A and Products B and C are clearly deficient for whatever reason.  The latter suggests that Product C is preferred by some because they like the name, or the color, or the buttons on the radio.

A few years back I went to buy a small car, I had a lot of credit using a GM credit card and I figured that $3500 off the price of a small cheap car is a pretty big discount.  The first salesmen I encountered asked me what I wanted, and I said "A Sonic, but it has to have a manual."  He informed me they all had manuals in the glove compartment.  I gather manual trannies are so unusual these days the salesmen don't know what they are.

When we bought the GTI, the VW salesman we happened to encounter was a GTI ENTHUSIAST, in spades.  He was delighted that I wanted a manual, though he seemed surprised that I could drive one.  I'm not THAT old.  I wanted a white one, which they didn't  have, ended up with a sort of charcoal bluish color.  

I was probably emotional about choosing a graduate school myself, or at least not very rational, but it worked out.

Entropy

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #105 on: November 08, 2018, 03:32:40 PM »
@Hoss  and I are good friends off the boards… (on the boards I hate him..heh).  We disagree politically...  But not in the sense left or right… or D vs R.   We have our leans but most of the time, when you actually have the discussion, there is more overlap in opinion than disagreement.  And that disagreement usually is around how rather than what.   For whatever reason, we’re both fine with the other not agreeing.   If anything I think we appreciate not agreeing.   Echo chambers are boring.  But because we know each other and give each other enough crap… our ego’s are not involved.  It’s ok to evolve an opinion based upon what the other said.  It’s ok to be wrong because you lack information.  It’s also ok to appreciate a point of view due to a different experience.  But mostly, Hoss knows I'm right..

Our culture, at least on twitter, FB or message boards, ego’s get in the way....   It’s about being right more than discussing.  A disagreement means someone is insulting you…  and discussions turn into demonizing because it is easier to dismiss you due to a moral flaw than it is to engage in understanding and finding a middle ground.  

JMO... but I see a big difference in how people interact between friends and on message boards...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 03:34:36 PM by Entropy »

FearlessF

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #106 on: November 08, 2018, 03:34:23 PM »
I miss the old back porch thread on the Big 12 space on the cfn boards, but when I visited there in the new space it just wasn't the same so I haven't been back.

Change is hard.
the new back porch isn't the same, but it's similar and continues to evolve.  
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2018, 04:13:12 PM »
Humans obviously get emotional about whatever (including football oddly enough).  What "should" otherwise be a perfectly logical decision basis ends up often being emotional.  The former would suggest that everyone in that situation should choose Product A and Products B and C are clearly deficient for whatever reason.  The latter suggests that Product C is preferred by some because they like the name, or the color, or the buttons on the radio.
I've made the argument several times that humans are basically pack animals, who pretend to reason. Boy, it pisses people off when you say that. But I think it's largely true.
People like to be a part of something. Whether it's a political party, a religious affiliation, nationality, race, fans of a sports team, or owning a Ford instead of those Chevy pieces of trash. 
The issue is that sometimes people take this a little too far. They go beyond finding tribal/pack affiliation with those like them, into denigrating those of the other packs. We start to think of our "in group" pack as universally good, and the "out group" packs as universally bad. It's natural, but it's destructive. 
This is one reason that this board is better than most "team" boards. We're forced to interact with those from different teams. Even the OSU and Michigan fans here get along with each other. Because over time, although we might argue about football [and other matters, such as the culinary arts or occiasionally energy policy], we're all a part of the same thing.
However, even we have our problems... We occasionally denigrate the SEC as being "lesser" in academics, or scheduling parity, etc. And because we don't have [many] posters from the SEC, we can largely do so with impunity, as only a few SEC folks post in the B1G forum, and they've probably been forced to grow thick skins. And we continue to do it with impunity, relying on "well, I've got a few friends who are SEC, so I'm not conference-ist!"
This is human nature. It's a big part of the strife we see in the world today, and getting back on topic of ONLINE civility, is particularly important in the online world because we can easily wall ourselves off from other packs into an online world where everyone we interact with is part of our own pack. And it coarsens us to remembering that the other packs are--in fact--human beings with hopes and dreams and well-reasoned opinions, even if those opinions differ from our own. 
All the dreams of the internet age are dashed on these rocks. The idea that instant global communication would BREAK DOWN barriers rather than making it easy for us to retreat into our own little walled fortresses surrounded by people like ourselves is gone. We are supposed to be getting better; we're actually getting worse.
I don't know how to fix it... Which is extraordinarily depressing, because I look around at the world and see these factors getting increasingly worse, and can only imagine it's going to lead to a very dark place. 

FearlessF

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2018, 04:24:35 PM »
Even the OSU and Michigan fans here get along with each other. 


this doesn't seem natural or "right"

actually it frightens me a bit
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2018, 04:31:34 PM »
I'm not sure if things are getting worse or if what is worse is simply more visible.

FearlessF

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2018, 04:33:57 PM »
old folks like me are always convinced that things are going to hell

actually I'm not convinced and have a positive outlook on most topics
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Cincydawg

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Re: OT: Online Civility
« Reply #111 on: November 08, 2018, 04:50:29 PM »
My window on the world circa 1968 was the nightly news, which I watched almost every night, and the local newspaper, which I skimmed.

We didn't have videos of people doing stupid stuff all the time, and I suppose "we" thought people didn't do idiotic stuff and stunts, other than Evil Knievel of course.  Today of course much of Youtube is people doing stupid stuff.

And of course we get exposed to "alternative views" on line all the time.

I vaguely recall going with my Dad to vote in 1960.  I wanted to have a side, he wouldn't tell me how he was voting, but others in line had on Kennedy hats or Nixon buttons or whatever else.  I desperately wondered who was right and who was wrong.  The world had to be binary for me, and digital, not analog.  

I recall my Uncle told my dad that if he voted for Goldwater in 1964 we'd have war and riots in the street and big deficits.  I guess my Dad did vote or Goldwater, and that caused all of that mayhem.


 

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