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Topic: ~Soccer Thread~

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rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2018, 04:21:20 PM »
in my neck of the woods, the heart of cfb country, it's growing tremendously.

rook119

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2018, 08:51:01 PM »
the saddest part is a guy like Pulisic could have made millions by playing in the WC, now he won't. not to mention the kid is a phenom that the world could have seen on the biggest stage.


The exchange rate isn't what its used to be but barring injury he's going to make a minimum of 175K/week UK in England (about 13M/year). If say Man city comes for him he'll make 200K+/week for being a squad (largely a bench) player. 

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2018, 09:53:17 AM »
my son is 7... every Saturday he wakes up early to watch Premier League soccer on NBCSN.   He's religious about it.  

At school, when I either attend for an event, volunteer or pick up my kids it is noticeable how many soccer jerseys/shirts I see compared to football, baseball or basketball.  yes, Chiefs day dominates.. and so does Royals Fridays, but outside that it is soccer.  Sporting is very good and kids in KC have access to watch several European leagues.   It is much more popular today with kids compared to when I was growing up.  

It may never top Football, Baseball or Basketball, but it has gained ground and I believe will continue to gain ground.  
it's closer to baseball and basketball that you'd think. football, unsurprisingly, is #1 by a wide but shrinking margin (37%) (also has interesting take on the kneeling/national anthem trend), basketball (11%) and baseball (9%) are just ahead of soccer (7%) as mentioned for favorite sports for americans.
looking at age groups, the older crowd (55+) is keeping baseball relevant (14% and #2) and soccer down (1%). among the 2 groups under 55 (18-34,35-54) soccer and basketball are basically tied at 10-11%, and baseball is down to 6-7%.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/football-americans-favorite-sport-watch.aspx

ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2018, 11:40:06 AM »
it's closer to baseball and basketball that you'd think. football, unsurprisingly, is #1 by a wide but shrinking margin (37%) (also has interesting take on the kneeling/national anthem trend), basketball (11%) and baseball (9%) are just ahead of soccer (7%) as mentioned for favorite sports for americans.
looking at age groups, the older crowd (55+) is keeping baseball relevant (14% and #2) and soccer down (1%). among the 2 groups under 55 (18-34,35-54) soccer and basketball are basically tied at 10-11%, and baseball is down to 6-7%.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/football-americans-favorite-sport-watch.aspx
I think part of it there though, is a lot of the traditional fans, just have football-basketball-baseball 1-2-3 in some order (with the majority picking football).  So I'm guessing basketball does more favorably among the 89% who don't say it's their favorite, than soccer does among the 93% who say it isn't.

Just a guess, but if you did it more poll style with points for a 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place, etc... vote, soccer would be worse off than just asking people their favorite.

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2018, 11:45:21 AM »
probably, but i bet the age demographics would still favor soccer over baseball. at least be trending that way.

ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2018, 11:54:30 AM »
probably, but i bet the age demographics would still favor soccer over baseball. at least be trending that way.
I agree.
I think participation and specialization are exacerbating that.  I played both growing up, but I enjoyed soccer more.  You are a kid, baseball is boring.  It's slow, it's scheme over style.  I didn't start to enjoy baseball til I got older, now it's my favorite sport.  I know a lot of kids that played baseball just because it was the only organized sport going on in the summer, didn't really love it, but by high school, figured out they were really good, and started to really enjoy it.
That's not the case anymore.  You better figure out by 9 what your sport is, and then you play it year round.  No 9 year old is picking baseball over everything else.

Entropy

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2018, 12:18:09 PM »
it's closer to baseball and basketball that you'd think. football, unsurprisingly, is #1 by a wide but shrinking margin (37%) (also has interesting take on the kneeling/national anthem trend), basketball (11%) and baseball (9%) are just ahead of soccer (7%) as mentioned for favorite sports for americans.
looking at age groups, the older crowd (55+) is keeping baseball relevant (14% and #2) and soccer down (1%). among the 2 groups under 55 (18-34,35-54) soccer and basketball are basically tied at 10-11%, and baseball is down to 6-7%.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/football-americans-favorite-sport-watch.aspx
Good information.  thanks for sharing.   I had not realized soccer was closing in on baseball that quickly, at least when it came to favorite sports.  

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 01:55:26 PM »
I agree.
I think participation and specialization are exacerbating that.  I played both growing up, but I enjoyed soccer more.  You are a kid, baseball is boring.  It's slow, it's scheme over style.  I didn't start to enjoy baseball til I got older, now it's my favorite sport.  I know a lot of kids that played baseball just because it was the only organized sport going on in the summer, didn't really love it, but by high school, figured out they were really good, and started to really enjoy it.
That's not the case anymore.  You better figure out by 9 what your sport is, and then you play it year round.  No 9 year old is picking baseball over everything else.
With a 13 and 10-year old, I spend way too much of my life thinking about youth sports, but (1) it's a shame that people think you need to play a sport year round at age 9; (2) many sports--baseball and softball at the top of the list--need to find ways to develop young players without trying to make the 9-year olds play the adult version of the game (baseball and softball are way behind the curve on this); and (3) one of the biggest problems with youth sports in this country is the lure of the NCAA scholarship (the biggest problem with youth sports is parents). ;) 

MarqHusker

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2018, 03:15:50 PM »
I wouldn't ignore another interesting trend (Aspen Institute, and SFIA, among others I've read).   Youth participation rate in soccer is now in its 8th year of decline (btw nearly all youth sports have seen declining rates of participation).   Soccer's losses in percentages were much larger than baseball or basketball's decline  (-11% soccer to -4% and -6.8% respectively). May very well be supporting evidence of specialization,   which of course ties into complaints about cost of participation (club).

LaCrosse and Hockey were the only sustained levels of participation growth in the same period for boys (6-17).

I also think we need to acknowledge that what we like as kids may not be what we like as adults.   This applies to so many things.  (food,  politics, music, sports, movies, entertainment).   We can't affix the tastes of 6-17, or Millenials, or Gen X and extrapolate it to their older years.  Huge mistake.   Same people somehow think that 'Red' and 'Blue' states are somehow etched into stone for generations.

Entropy

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2018, 03:45:41 PM »
With a 13 and 10-year old, I spend way too much of my life thinking about youth sports, but (1) it's a shame that people think you need to play a sport year round at age 9; (2) many sports--baseball and softball at the top of the list--need to find ways to develop young players without trying to make the 9-year olds play the adult version of the game (baseball and softball are way behind the curve on this); and (3) one of the biggest problems with youth sports in this country is the lure of the NCAA scholarship (the biggest problem with youth sports is parents). ;)
I'd say the biggest problem with youth sports is not the parents (they are a problem) but rather when we were growing up, coaching was a part time job.  Today, many have turned it into full time roles with multiple teams.   You want to play on a non YMCA team, it's a 9 month commitment for soccer here in KC (few exceptions).   Like gymnastics... 20hrs a week to move up.  Don't want to do that to your 8 yr old daughter, no problem.   We just won't teach her anything more.   Dance...?  well, it's a 11 month commitment if you want them learn. 
Parents make choices, but the options are becoming more constrained.   As a parent who wants their kids playing multiple sports or in multiple activities, it is tougher.   I'm sure we could do better.  It is also tough when they want to play with their friends.   And I get that.. we all did. 

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2018, 08:40:44 PM »
I'd say the biggest problem with youth sports is not the parents (they are a problem) but rather when we were growing up, coaching was a part time job.  Today, many have turned it into full time roles with multiple teams.   You want to play on a non YMCA team, it's a 9 month commitment for soccer here in KC (few exceptions).   Like gymnastics... 20hrs a week to move up.  Don't want to do that to your 8 yr old daughter, no problem.   We just won't teach her anything more.   Dance...?  well, it's a 11 month commitment if you want them learn.
Parents make choices, but the options are becoming more constrained.   As a parent who wants their kids playing multiple sports or in multiple activities, it is tougher.   I'm sure we could do better.  It is also tough when they want to play with their friends.   And I get that.. we all did.  
We're basically speaking the same language, but I can tell you that even in 3-month recreational seasons, parents are still the biggest problems. :-)

I would say the focus on professional coaches and 9-month+ commitments is driven by parents who are seeking glory and/or NCAA scholarships. And it's a fools' errand. Great athletes are great athletes. I've seen this as a coach in soccer: a kid leaves a recreational league to go get the professional coaching, the 4x/week practices, and the 9-month season, and comes back to the recreational league 2-3 years later. The ones who were above average when they left are still above average, but not better than that. The ones who were rock stars when they left, are still rock stars, but haven't put much space between the great athletes who never went to to clubs. For the great athletes, the additional touches they get from the competitive programs have given them a little edge, but even that isn't as big as you would think.

Adults play sports for fun, for fitness, and to take our minds off of the hard things in life. Kids should be playing for the same reasons, but it's really, really easy to get sucked into trying to make li'l Johnny or Jane the next big thing. It normally ends with Johnny and Jane dropping the sport before age 14. And for many who make it past that, it often ends with resentment over all the time sunk in something that felt like a job.

I'm painting with a broad brush here; there are plenty of exceptions in a country of 300+ million people, but we could all stand to dial youth sports back. And it's the parents who will (or won't) do it.

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2018, 09:23:22 AM »
that's well said. agree 100%

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2018, 12:53:29 PM »
To be fair to parents, we all want our kids to succeed. When the world around us is telling us our kid is awesome at something, we're inclined to listen. When we're told our kid is awesome, and this is what a kid who is awesome at this should do -- and others like him/her do it -- it is hard to say no, especially to our child who wants to do what the other awesome kids (whom he or she knows well) do.

Right now, the kids who are awesome at some sport often join these leagues, and it's the rare(-ish) parent who says no. More common is the parent who endures a couple of years of the demands of it and just decides it isn't worth it (whether for financial or other reasons), but I'm always particularly proud of the parents I know who say no from the outset. But when your great player joins a club, is awesome, and wants to keep being awesome, all the while learning some good life lessons, it's hard to say no. And the cycle continues.

In and of itself, the cycle of rewarding and promoting great players isn't the problem. The problem is there's plenty of money to be made capitalizing on the perception that a kid is great, or *just that close* if only they get a little boost. A parent and their money are soon parted. And it's hard for parents to recognize where they fall prey to the financial interests that aren't in their/their child's interest. The overspecialization and over commitment in youth sports is all about money. But its parents who pay those bills, so only parents can reverse the trend.


ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2018, 11:21:42 AM »
My son is now old enough to start T-Ball this summer, and I was toying with the diea of helping coach.  The level of background and coaching clearances now makes me not want to do it.  I get the background checks, those are necessary.  But I have to be a Level 3 USA Baseball certified instructor to help out a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds playing T-Ball?  My dad coached our baseball team until I was probably 10 based on the qualifications that he played HS baseball, and was willing to do it.  It just seems all way to serious at a way too young age.

Walter Mathau's character sure as shit wouldn't be coaching today.

MarqHusker

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2018, 11:25:34 AM »
That's ridiculous.   Talk about spooking away otherwise enthusiastic parents.   That would make me so angry.

For volleyball, where I'm sure the pool of parents who know the game is much smaller than baseball, the only mandatory requirement (besides the background check) was to attend a 90 minute orientation with the local HS coaches who demonstrated the things to emphasize.   It was perfectly appropriate.

ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2018, 11:44:57 AM »
That's ridiculous.   Talk about spooking away otherwise enthusiastic parents.   That would make me so angry.

For volleyball, where I'm sure the pool of parents who know the game is much smaller than baseball, the only mandatory requirement (besides the background check) was to attend a 90 minute orientation with the local HS coaches who demonstrated the things to emphasize.   It was perfectly appropriate.
Yeah my guess is baseball can afford to be more selective, but why?  Since he's our oldest, it's our first year in the system, so I'll probably sit this one out anyway, but I'm not spending the time to take all of those classes, nor should I.  I can teach fundamentals just as well as any of the "unqualified" parents have been forever.  I'm sure having some overqualified guy who peaked as an All-Regional HS selection, and is now living through coaching 8 year olds, none of whom are his kids, is really going to help this generation love the game.

MarqHusker

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2018, 12:54:32 PM »
Kids should be coaching 1st base too, not the parents.   Keeps their head in the game.

We have teens handle all of the officiating and line judging in vball.  Very sensible.

sorry to hijack the soccer thread with LL talk.   That gives me a yellow card, no?  I'll admit I played one season of soccer as a youth and stopped, once I could play football.   I helped volunteer with my kids in their one and only soccer season.    It is organized to death, but there seems to be a pretty clear division between the 'rec league' and these 'travel' squads.

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2018, 01:35:36 PM »
Kids should be coaching 1st base too, not the parents.   Keeps their head in the game.

We have teens handle all of the officiating and line judging in vball.  Very sensible.

sorry to hijack the soccer thread with LL talk.   That gives me a yellow card, no?  I'll admit I played one season of soccer as a youth and stopped, once I could play football.   I helped volunteer with my kids in their one and only soccer season.    It is organized to death, but there seems to be a pretty clear division between the 'rec league' and these 'travel' squads.
I've been feeling a little guilty about derailing things, too, but hey, my daughter has a soccer game tomorrow morning... (yes, outdoors; that's how California rolls).
ELA, 6 is really young to play any form of baseball. Yes, the leagues run t-ball at that age, but in my view, having had my kids in baseball and softball up through 12U, it's the very, very rare kid who gets anything other than run-around time in 6-year old baseball. These are skill (not effort) based games, and very few kids are even close to being able to reliably catch and throw the ball at 6-years old, let alone process even the basics of baseball strategy. Physical fine motor development is so steep in that age range that a 7-year old might get something out of it, but a kid who is athletic and starts at age 8, won't have missed anything by skipping two years of silliness. The silliness includes tons of parents and coaches yelling to try to get Johnny to make the right play because virtually none of the kids understand the game. And the yelling is a terrible way to teach. So silliness. Seriously.
If they start at 8, It will take them 3-4 weeks to catch up on the basics, and if they have been watching any baseball on TV with you, or playing any catch with you, it won't even take that. Unless you are just looking for a place to park your kid for a couple of hours a week (and there's nothing wrong with that--though there are other options), consider taking a pass on it for another year or two.
The biggest downside I can think of to waiting is that a lot of these leagues (maybe all?) have little cabals of the "in" parents/volunteers, and that drives a lot of the all-star/select season opportunities. If your kid is a superstar it won't matter, but if he's borderline, it makes a difference. But this gets back to my earlier comments about parents as the problem in youth sports. So if you look forward to sacrificing your summers to travel baseball from age 9 through whenever (and while that sounded pejorative, there are lots of people who have a lot of fun doing it; some are very good friends of mine), you might consider making sure you get into that crowd earlier--but still, 6 is too early to worry about it. Unfortunately 7 isn't. Silly.

As for coaching standards, different organizations handle training differently. In our softball league, the theory was to get everyone trained up, then just do some easy maintenance as you move up levels. Our soccer league is the opposite: shorter training for younger ages, but pretty significant training commitments as you move up levels. Our baseball league (which isn't Little League, but operates very similarly) is a hybrid. I prefer the way our soccer league does it, but there are pluses and minuses.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 01:37:47 PM by SFBadger96 »

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2018, 02:19:45 PM »
some good news, dual national timothy tillman set to make switch from germany to usmnt.

link

rook119

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2018, 10:16:15 PM »
My son is now old enough to start T-Ball this summer, and I was toying with the diea of helping coach.  The level of background and coaching clearances now makes me not want to do it.  I get the background checks, those are necessary.  But I have to be a Level 3 USA Baseball certified instructor to help out a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds playing T-Ball?  My dad coached our baseball team until I was probably 10 based on the qualifications that he played HS baseball, and was willing to do it.  It just seems all way to serious at a way too young age.

Walter Mathau's character sure as crap wouldn't be coaching today.
My dad coached T-shirt league (8-9 year olds), the qualifications were: do you want to coach T-shirt ball? Then OK here's a team. 
I was the 1st or 3rd base coach at age 10 and while I don't even remember anyone ever listening to me I had a blast (we were good too!). The other base coach was a random parent or one of the players. Yes all kids should do this. 
 

Entropy

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2018, 09:04:05 AM »
I grew up on a farm..  when it was time to get the wiggles out or exercise, there was plenty to do.   I would help dad make fence, pick rocks out of the field for a drive way to a new shed, walk beans.... lots to do.

I now live in the suburbs and to me, sports is that exercise.   I want my kids to enjoy it, but frankly, the what doesn't matter.   In fact, we want them in something physical and something fine arts.   It is more about being active and having some skills that allow you to do things as an adult.   We have no illusions of our genetic code leading to scholarship offers.  

As a parent, we've found our kids would be doing more if we didn't say no.   A friend is trying out for basketball... I want to play too.   The "want" is about hanging out with friends.   But that "want" can also make a kid feel... well, not like a kid.  So I also understand how easily parents can one day say "how did we get here?".   I personally think it's key parents step back and look at what the overall picture every once in a while... just because it is too easy to see the trees and not the forest.  
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 09:08:37 AM by Entropy »

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2018, 10:51:43 AM »
well said, entropy.

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2018, 04:25:35 PM »
My dad coached T-shirt league (8-9 year olds), the qualifications were: do you want to coach T-shirt ball? Then OK here's a team.

 
While I appreciate the sentiment, in a world in which we know that most child abuse (sexual and otherwise) comes from authority figure adults in children's lives, and no insurance company will pay the bill for a child's injury without first enquiring whether it was someone's fault and attempting to shift financial responsibility, no local sports board can afford to operate this way today.
In some sense it's a shame, but there have always been bad actors, and better to steer our children away from them. Doing a background check isn't much of a burden, and having proper insurance is imperative.

ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2018, 08:02:05 AM »
While I appreciate the sentiment, in a world in which we know that most child abuse (sexual and otherwise) comes from authority figure adults in children's lives, and no insurance company will pay the bill for a child's injury without first enquiring whether it was someone's fault and attempting to shift financial responsibility, no local sports board can afford to operate this way today.
In some sense it's a shame, but there have always been bad actors, and better to steer our children away from them. Doing a background check isn't much of a burden, and having proper insurance is imperative.
Right, as I said, I don't mind the background check part.

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2018, 10:52:23 AM »
While I appreciate the sentiment, in a world in which we know that most child abuse (sexual and otherwise) comes from authority figure adults in children's lives, and no insurance company will pay the bill for a child's injury without first enquiring whether it was someone's fault and attempting to shift financial responsibility, no local sports board can afford to operate this way today.
In some sense it's a shame, but there have always been bad actors, and better to steer our children away from them. Doing a background check isn't much of a burden, and having proper insurance is imperative.
maybe it's alabama being behind the times or something, but we pretty much operate that way still. i am unaware of any background checks run on me, and i've coached my kids for the last 3 seasons. my brother and brother-in-law have similar experiences (baseball and soccer leagues). not that i'm opposed to it.

however, they are pretty tight with regards to organization. everything, including practice times and locations, meetings, and obviously games, are schedules by the league. and while it's not an official rule of the league, it's understood and expressly encouraged to not just drop your kids off and leave. in the 3 years and 30-someodd kids i've coached, only once has a parent done that, and they informed me and had good reason and were back before we had our mid practice break. i've actually been pleasantly surprised with the parents' involvement.

ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2018, 11:17:20 AM »
maybe it's alabama being behind the times or something, but we pretty much operate that way still. i am unaware of any background checks run on me, and i've coached my kids for the last 3 seasons. my brother and brother-in-law have similar experiences (baseball and soccer leagues). not that i'm opposed to it.
I mean, considering the recent Senate election, I'm sure a joke about Alabama's concern (or lack thereof) over background checks and contact with minors is there to be made, but out of fear of driving this thing even farther off course...

As to the no drop off thing, my kids are young enough that I would never consider it yet, but I imagine at some point wouldn't you WANT no parents at practice?  I think by the time I was 9, my parents just dropped me off for basketball and soccer practice (baseball was different with my dad coaching).  I would think having them at pracitce leads to kids looking to their parents, not the coach, and might make the coach hesitant to coach up the kids too much with dad looking on.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 11:19:16 AM by ELA »

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2018, 11:34:53 AM »
My experience ties it to age. My 14U team got very few parents anywhere near. 12Us were similar. 10Us some stick around. 8Us a lot stick around. If the parent is willing to help out, he or she can be a great asset. If they are there to provide "extra" coaching for their kid, I don't want them there.

SFBadger96

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2018, 12:58:34 PM »
Wisconsin's Chris Mueller (Orlando) and Mark Segbers (New England) are first round MLS picks (6th and 9th overall). That's kinda cool.

ELA

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2018, 02:46:43 PM »
Wisconsin's Chris Mueller (Orlando) and Mark Segbers (New England) are first round MLS picks (6th and 9th overall). That's kinda cool.
How the hell were they so bad until they got hot, won the BTT and got an auto-bid?  Didn't they finish like 6th in the conference?

rolltidefan

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Re: ~Soccer Thread~
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2018, 02:54:56 PM »
I mean, considering the recent Senate election, I'm sure a joke about Alabama's concern (or lack thereof) over background checks and contact with minors is there to be made, but out of fear of driving this thing even farther off course...

As to the no drop off thing, my kids are young enough that I would never consider it yet, but I imagine at some point wouldn't you WANT no parents at practice?  I think by the time I was 9, my parents just dropped me off for basketball and soccer practice (baseball was different with my dad coaching).  I would think having them at pracitce leads to kids looking to their parents, not the coach, and might make the coach hesitant to coach up the kids too much with dad looking on.
considering how deeply red alabama is and the fact that blue won, i'd think that speaks well of alabama's concern over those issues mentioned.
as for the other point, you're probably right. my kids are not yet at that age.

 

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